Robert Novak was never a proponent of the Iraq War.
In fact, he opposed the first Gulf War.
Please tell me that as a former journalist you didn’t mistakenly think Robert Novak was a neocon or proponent of the War?
As for Armitage, like his boss Powell and Wilkerson he came to oppose the war and called for a withdrawal as soon as Powell resigned and he could publicly challenge the administration.
That said, having stepped in it, I’m no one to talk.
And now Russia begins to unilaterally ease sanctions based on the framework:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-lifts-ban-on-supplying-s-300-missiles-to-iran/ar-AAaVXzC
How does this delivery (assuming they don’t bomb before the missiles are active) impact Israel’s calculus on a bombing run?
And any takers on how fast this triggers another round of “Putin is tough and doesn’t respect Obama, but, by golly, he never would have pulled this shit on John “Give 'em hell” McCain!”
Kerry’s insistence that the “framework agreement” was that sanctions will be phased out after agreement is reached based on compliance and not dropped immediately seems like complete bullshit now, doesn’t it? When the sanctions are being dropped even before the agreement is completed.
If the sanctions were going to be dropped anyway, wouldn’t it make sense to get whatever concessions we can before they are?
I would think it would go without saying that Kerry is referring to us and our allies. Since when has the US ever had the ability to tell Russia what to do? Neither we, nor our European allies have reduced or removed sanctions based on the framework.
One could even argue that this move by Putin is in response to the “fuck the framework, we need bigger, tougher sanctions, or we need to bomb them!” talk coming from the neocons. Note that this missile transfer is of sophisticated air-defense technology. Putin may be trying to work with Iran (and possibly China) to undermine US influence in the region and the neocons are giving him a convenient excuse.
Desperation. That’s the way to conduct negotiations, definitely.
So how are you tough talking "not a good deal"ers planning on keeping China and Russia in line? Gonna bomb their nuclear facilities? Lol
Note that none of this will have any impact whatsoever on the Iranian situation, but it’s Step 3 that is really important anyway, so as long as that works out…
This, however, seems like more “Obama is wrong, no matter what” reasoning.
If Obama had agreed that sanctions would be phased out as of the signing of the agreement, the right wing critics would be outraged that we’re giving something for nothing, reducing the sanctions without yet having obtained any on-site inspections.
It’s impossible to take the criticism seriously. If he negotiates an agreement, it’s “He’s weak and gave away too much.” But if the deal fails, “He folded!”
The criticism is 100% negative, and thus fails to serve any advisory purpose.
Seems like the real bullshit is the Republican call, “We shouldn’t agree to any deal; let’s just continue crippling sanctions forever! We’ll just FORCE Iran to surrender to our terms!”
As I’ve pointed out repeatedly in this thread, that is not a realistic proposal. Now we know why.
Which does not change the fact that we know more about what the actual deal looks like from Iran than from our own leaders.
This is not a fact, especially considering that there is no deal yet.
Jesus, adaher. THERE IS NO FUCKING “DEAL”. THERE NEVER HAS BEEN A FUCKING “DEAL”. THERE IS A TENTATIVE AGREEMENT TO MAKE A “DEAL” BASED ON THE BROAD OUTLINES OF THE FRAMEWORK.
We are NOT the Gods of the Universe (no matter what John “I’m tough” McCain and Lindsey “fuck it, bomb 'em” Graham tell you on Fox. If we “stand firm” and China and Russia bail on the sanctions we have exactly zero fucking influence over Iran. That’s a geopolitical reality. Deal with it.
Any agreement with Iran is based just as much on keeping our “allies” happy as it is letting Iran save some face.
And, you know what, I’d like a damn answer to my question. Russia has already said they’re going to release a shipment of one of the most sophisticated air defense weapons systems in the world. How does that impact the neocon calculus? Let’s say Israel take unilateral action and it doesn’t work because their planes get shot down. What then? If the GOP can’t answer that, then they don’t have a plan and they damn sure don’t deserve a seat at the grown-up table.
Fair enough, there is no actual deal yet. I just want to get a sense of what your expectations are. What the administration said is that sanctions would be dropped in stages as long as Iran kept its end of the bargain, and that intrusive inspections with no notice were going to be part of the deal.
If the deal ends up being immediate lifting of sanctions and very, very limited inspections(or no inspections at all), shouldn’t we walk away?
If we “stand firm” and China and Russia bail on the sanctions we have exactly zero fucking influence over Iran. That’s a geopolitical reality. Deal with it.
If the deal is that sanctions are lifted in a managed way and the Iran has to meet all its NPT obligations for IAEA inspections, shouldn’t we take the deal?
At the MINIMUM, we should get what the Obama administration said the framework is.
I am going to say it again: the most important player in these negotiations is China. Even if Russia suspends their sanctions it will not do much to help the Iranian economy. What, is Russia going to buy Iranian oil? China all by itself can end the effects of sanctions irrespective of what the west does. While China plays along, Iran will respect the deal and allow full inspections. If the US decides to play tough and walk away, most likely China will decide that they have no reason to play along and just lift their sanctions giving the definitive win to Tehran.
Ah, I never get tired of hearing Democrats preach American weakness. Actually, we have plenty of cards to play even if China and Russia bail on the sanctions. If Iran wants to become economically dependent on China and Russia, then that’s the bed they choose to make. Meanwhile, we will continue to sabotage their nuclear efforts and assassinate their scientists, as well as deny them Western markets.
If you’re advocating that we should accept us giving everything away in exchange for mere promises, I doubt you’ll find much agreement even from your own side.
Forget Russia, the are unimportant except as an arms dealer. China is the World’s second largest economy. Iran would do just fine, much better than now, being dependent on them. And at the end of the day, they will have the bomb. Your plan is no plan. It is shortsighted and had no stopping power. If you want Iran to be nuke free, we need to either make a deal or bomb them. The deal that we have made with the 5+1 is about as good as it is going to get. If you really believe it is not good enough either say how it should be changed or admit you just want war. Or STFU.
The Republicans have clearly demonstrated they have no plan.