# Ah honest attempt to 'see the other side' by a Progressive **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 24, 2020, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354 "2020-11-24T15:08:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/222 "2020-12-08T23:16:48Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > Two side of the same coin in many ways. Only one side is fact and the other is fiction. You can’t both-sides reality. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/223 "2020-12-08T23:19:19Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > So the other side is stupid and being tricked and your side is using logic and reason to reach rational results? Some folks that voted for trump feel the same way. Some of them think the folks on the left aren’t bad people, they are simply being tricked…conned into supporting these stupid ideas. > > Two side of the same coin in many ways. There is only one reality, so they can’t both be right. ETA. What Acsenray said. ---
**Author:** ![MrMrmrmr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrmrmrmr/32/5828_2.png) [@MrMrmrmr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrMrmrmr)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/224 "2020-12-08T23:26:11Z")
Can you tell me stupid things I believe? As a conservative,of course. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/225 "2020-12-08T23:35:36Z")
Every person is different, even among conservatives. So no, I can’t tell which _specific_ nuttery you’ve absorbed. One common stupid belief among classic conservatives is “trickle-down economics.” Now, unlike certain other stupid ideas (like, say, racism) it has something of a veneer of argument behind it - but it doesn’t hold up under either direct examination or historical assessment. Funneling money away from people motivated to feed it back into the economy doesn’t boost the economy, and moving money away from the lower classes to the upper classes does not, in fact, enrich the lower classes. (Shocking, I know.) Now, do _you_ believe in trickle-down economics? Who knows! ---
**Author:** ![MrMrmrmr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrmrmrmr/32/5828_2.png) [@MrMrmrmr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrMrmrmr)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/226 "2020-12-08T23:40:26Z")
Let me do a little research on what specifically is trickle down and I will get back to you. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/227 "2020-12-08T23:42:00Z")
If you haven’t heard of it you probably haven’t been learned it. It was a fairly specific Reagan-era lie intended to sell the common folk on shunting money to the rich folk who so desperately didn’t need it. ---
**Author:** ![MrMrmrmr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrmrmrmr/32/5828_2.png) [@MrMrmrmr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrMrmrmr)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2020, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/228 "2020-12-08T23:50:27Z")
I just wanted to review the terminology. Many misunderstandings result from people using terms differently. My taxes were cut under Trump. I did invest that money. I came out ahead. Did my investment end in greater employment for low income people? I will admit it could have gone to bonuses and stock buybacks that didn’t help low income people. ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2020, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/229 "2020-12-09T00:45:39Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Only one side is fact and the other is fiction. You can’t both-sides reality. I think it’s both sides calling the other side stupid for not agreeing with them. > [@begbert2](#): > > has turned modern conservatives into drooling morons and frothing rage beasts. glad to see there is an honest attempt by folks to understand the other side. > [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > There is only one reality, so they can’t both be right. They can both be wrong. > [@MrMrmrmr](#): > > My taxes were cut under Trump. I did invest that money. I came out ahead. My taxes went up under trump. So YMMV. Trickle down economics is another name for supply side economics. It is a useful policy sometimes and a really bad policy other times. ---
**Author:** ![MrMrmrmr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrmrmrmr/32/5828_2.png) [@MrMrmrmr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrMrmrmr)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2020, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/230 "2020-12-09T01:03:27Z")
I think Progressive people misunderstand Conservative people. It is not that we disagree with your goals, it is that we don’t believe the policies you promote will achieve the goal. I believe that if you reward a behavior you will get more of that behavior. The inverse is also true, punish a behavior and you will get less of that behavior. Is there any agreement on that? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2020, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/231 "2020-12-09T01:19:56Z")
> [@MrMrmrmr](#): > > Can you tell me stupid things I believe? As a conservative,of course Why don’t you tell us what you believe, as a conservative of course, so we can determine which parts are stupid? ---
**Author:** ![MrMrmrmr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrmrmrmr/32/5828_2.png) [@MrMrmrmr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrMrmrmr)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2020, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/232 "2020-12-09T01:25:53Z")
I believe everyone should work hard to be a productive member of society. I believe everyone should contribute to society by paying an appropriate level of taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2020, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/233 "2020-12-09T01:28:50Z")
> [@MrMrmrmr](#): > > I believe everyone should work hard to be a productive member of society. > I believe everyone should contribute to society by paying an appropriate level of taxes And here we have the reason for the phrase “The devil is in the details”. ---
**Author:** ![MrMrmrmr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrmrmrmr/32/5828_2.png) [@MrMrmrmr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrMrmrmr)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2020, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/234 "2020-12-09T01:32:21Z")
Agreed. How about the reward/punish question? If you want more junkies you hand out free needles,right? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2020, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/235 "2020-12-09T02:44:39Z")
I agree, we should punish junkies by doing everything we can to make sure they get AIDS. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2020, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/236 "2020-12-09T11:01:24Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > I think it’s both sides calling the other side stupid for not agreeing with them. One side is calling the other stupid for not agreeing with _ **reality** _. For example, at present there are millions of Americans still convinced that the Trump won the election and that there is massive evidence of election fraud that somehow never seems to make its way into a courtroom. Belief in QAnon theories is rife. We’re told that COVID is simultaneously a hoax and a manufactured virus spread as part of a China-Joe Biden-Dr Fauci conspiracy in order to make Trump look bad, that it’s harmless and that it will kill lots of old people, that it will go away on its own and that Trump has saved the nation with his vaccine. Newsmax and OANN regularly report material that borders on outright delusion. And this level of insanity goes right up through both Houses of Congress and the whole Executive Branch. But it’s liberals who are the big meanies for pointing this out. > [@damuriajashi](#): > > glad to see there is an honest attempt by folks to understand the other side. Right now there are angry armed right-wing mobs threatening election officials with death simply for refusing to throw out the election results, and we’ve had angry armed mobs breaking into State Houses just to protest having to wear masks. “Frothing rage beasts” is only mildly hyperbolic. But again, liberals are being mean for pointing out things the right-wing are doing and saying. > [@damuriajashi](#): > > They can both be wrong. Can be. But that doesn’t mean they are. ---
**Author:** ![MrMrmrmr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrmrmrmr/32/5828_2.png) [@MrMrmrmr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrMrmrmr)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2020, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/237 "2020-12-09T16:51:49Z")
Exclude the middle much? ---
**Author:** ![Dahnlor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dahnlor/32/533_2.png) [@Dahnlor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dahnlor)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2020, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/238 "2020-12-09T16:53:52Z")
> [@](#): > > Agreed. > How about the reward/punish question? > If you want more junkies you hand out free needles,right? If you give tax breaks and subsidies to industrial polluters, you reward industrial polluting. Another angle: Free needles do not create new junkies, as they do not contain the substances that would make them junkies. I think you might have a problem with the distinction between “rewarding behavior” and “taking measures to reduce health risks among those already participating in risky behavior.” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2020, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/239 "2020-12-09T17:00:23Z")
> [@MrMrmrmr](#): > > Exclude the middle much? Ignore reality more? What middle are you referring to? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2020, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/240 "2020-12-09T17:22:26Z")
> [@MrMrmrmr](#): > > Exclude the middle much? Where is this excluded middle? ‘Junkies’ are gonna shoot junk whether they get free, clean, needles or not. Can you acknowledge that? Will you also acknowledge that society is going to pay for the _known_ issues caused by using ‘dirty’ needles? With ameliorating the problems caused by ‘dirty’ needles being the, almost, entire reason needle exchanges exist in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2020, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/241 "2020-12-09T18:40:02Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > glad to see there is an honest attempt by folks to understand the other side. One can understand why people are acting the way they are without _ignoring_ the way they are. Conservatives as a group _are_ being riled up toward fear and anger, and this is resulting in a disturbing number of them adopting and demonstrating behaviors that, to be charitable, are based on incredibly bad reasoning and which do not demonstrate calm thought processes. This is really happening, and pretending that all or even most conservatives are being calmly rational with a reasonable opposite perspective is to live a lie. Not all conservatives have been turned into frothing morons, but many have, and their leaders and media sources _want them to be that way_. The question is, how are they being pushed in this direction, and why are they going along with it? What opinions do they hold that are driving them to think and behave this way? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354.md?page=13)