# Ah honest attempt to 'see the other side' by a Progressive **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 24, 2020, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354 "2020-11-24T15:08:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/61 "2020-11-25T14:46:51Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > This thread is a perfect example of how to fail at seeing the other side. It didn’t take us long to call all pro-lifers misogynist. Seeing the other side’s point of view doesn’t require agreement with it. Someone who is pro-life never has to fear that their right to carry to term will be abridged by anyone on the pro-choice side. They don’t have to worry about receiving pre-natal healthcare if they are poor because people on the pro-choice side want to ensure that is available to everyone. Including AFTER the baby is born. They don’t have to worry that people will be demonstrating outside the clinic demanding they get an abortion because the world is already plenty full of people and babies that need adoption. Doctors will not be killed by lunatics for offering full term care to pregnant women. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/62 "2020-11-25T15:01:00Z")
I’m in complete accord with your first sentence and I certainly don’t agree with hard-core pro-lifers. However, I can still have empathy for their position and not conclude that they’re all misogynist fakers. Many conservatives use the same tactic to determine that all liberals are Communists who want to take your money. ---
**Author:** ![Author\_Balk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Author\_Balk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Author_Balk)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/63 "2020-11-25T15:03:00Z")
How many parents would have this type of talk with their child? I know a lot of kids your age are shoplifting. I want you to understand this is a bad thing to do. There are serious consequences if you are caught. So, if you decide to do shoplift, here is a jacket you can use. It has a pocket that has a lining. If you put stuff in the pocket the theft detectors won’t detect it. Now, remember I don’t want you to shoplift. I would think that a lot of people would consider sex education be along the same lines. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/64 "2020-11-25T15:11:50Z")
> [@Author\_Balk](#): > > I would think that a lot of people would consider sex education > be along the same lines. There is a time when young people are “ready” for sex. There is never a good time to shoplift. Sure, some young people have sex sooner than their parents would like, but it’s not the end of the world. Unless, of course, they haven’t had good sex education about the risks and how to minimize them. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/65 "2020-11-25T15:14:02Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > > [@bump](#): > > > > And then they say “Well what about me?” and figure that the Democrat politicians are not looking out for them, and that in the end, they’ll end up footing the bill for someone else. > > What kind of immature whiny 3 year old behavior is THAT? They’re like the toddler whose baby brother was born and is now taking all the attention, so they decide to throw tantrums to derail the whole family, and to torture their brother because they can’t handle anyone else getting slightly more attention. Or to view it another way, politicians should not be “looking out for” ANYONE beyond what is necessary for national defense and keeping the roads working. We are adults, not children who need to be coddled by mommy & daddy government. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/66 "2020-11-25T15:40:58Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > There is a time when young people are “ready” for sex. There is never a good time to shoplift. There’s such a thing as a good time to go shopping, though; and shopping’s not the same thing as shoplifting. For those who believe sex is meant primarily for procreation (not me) people are never “ready” for nonprocreative sex. And for those who believe sex is only for within marriage (also not me), nobody’s ever “ready” for extramarital sex. – I can see how somebody who thinks God made and intended sex specifically for the purpose of producing children could oppose birth control as well as abortion. I don’t believe a bit of it; but I can understand it. Suppose somebody takes a gorgeous lowslung sports car and tries to use it as a tractor? That’s not what it’s made for, and however much fun it is to drive on the right road, trying to use it in the field is only going to ruin it. (That analogy works the other way around, too; the tractor’s not meant for taking curves at high speed, and trying to use it for that might look like fun briefly, but is likely to result in the driver getting crushed under the flipped-over tractor.) Now I think they’re wrong, and I think their kids need genuine sex education and access to birth control because otherwise they’re at risk of getting massively screwed\* up. But that’s a disagreement, not an accusation that nobody can possibly actually believe such things. \*not designed for a pun, but I left it on purpose after I saw it ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/67 "2020-11-25T15:49:30Z")
> [@Drum\_God](#): > > I tell them that, if you are truly anti-abortion, the your only choice is to vote for Democrats. Can you provide me a quote from a prominent Democrat that spoke out about the horrors of Kermit Gosnell? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/68 "2020-11-25T15:54:02Z")
> [@agzem](#): > > Can you provide me a quote from a prominent Democrat that spoke out about the horrors of Kermit Gosnell? Is that a bona fide requirement of being anti-abortion ? Or is it more of a No True Scotsman argument ? ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/69 "2020-11-25T16:18:46Z")
> But let me just tell you this: What was done in Philadelphia was reprehensible, and everyone condemned. > **[Pelosi clashes with reporter over abortion bill, Kermit Gosnell](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2013/06/13/pelosi-clashes-with-reporter-over-abortion-kermit-gosnell/?arc404=true)** > > The reporter pressed the House minority leader on the morality of late-term and partial-birth abortion, but she wasn't interested in talking about it. Nancy Pelosi. She prominent? Now that I’ve gone to the trouble, so I can keep an accurate count in my ledger, how much would you say this information that you requested changed your perspective, on a scale from 99 to 100? ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/70 "2020-11-25T16:38:24Z")
Nancy Pelosi’s answer was WORSE than saying nothing. She **didn’t condemn the spine-cutting killings** , she pretended that everyone was mad at the mother that died: "…She continued: “But let me just tell you this: What was done in Philadelphia was reprehensible, and everyone condemned. For them to decide to **disrespect a judgement a woman** makes about her reproductive health is reprehensible.” ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/71 "2020-11-25T16:51:51Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > The problem with understanding the Trumpers is that they are using alternate facts. I may be willing to debate with them over policies, but how can you debate them over facts? This is the crux of it. My mother is a Trump supporter and I rarely talk to her about anything to do with politics. As of last week, she thought the results of the election might change because of Trump’s litigation efforts because she genuinely believes there was massive voter fraud in favor of Biden. We’re living in an era of alternative facts and I don’t know how to understand someone when we can’t even agree that water is wet. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/72 "2020-11-25T17:02:25Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Like I said, they hear all the equality, equity and fairness rhetoric, realize that it doesn’t apply to themselves, and then hear the stuff about UHC, economic policy, etc… and _assume_ that it’s also aimed primarily at the minorities. > > From there, it’s a question of scarcity- most people don’t have a lot of extra cash, so they don’t want to be taxed more, especially on something that they don’t perceive as having a benefit for themselves or people in their group. > > It’s all well and good to say "I don’t mind a little higher taxes for ", because that generally implies that you have some cushion there, and that your lifestyle won’t be affected. But if you have been struggling to be successful, and you finally achieve some modicum of that success, and then you perceive that a political party wants to tax away a lot of that for programs that don’t benefit you, it’s likely that you’ll be against it. Unless they’re making in the mid to high 6 figures, they won’t be taxed more. They may in fact be paying more taxes under the Republican tax system than under the Democrats. I pay a higher amount under Trump than I ever did under Obama due to Trump’s plan eliminating many deductions that benefitted the middle class. Biden has said increased taxes won’t start until 400K and I believe him. ---
**Author:** ![CoconutPete](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coconutpete/32/5294_2.png) [@CoconutPete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoconutPete)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/73 "2020-11-25T17:09:32Z")
It seems to me that what put Trump over the top in 2016 was his stance on illegal immigration, I think that’s the issue that made him win. I get why people get pissed off about the issue, both parties passed laws about illegal immigration but then later the Dems seemed to want to subvert or ignore those laws. Record numbers of illegal immigrants were deported during Obama’s presidency but in another sense it’s because just so many were spilling unchecked over the borders. Stuff like that pisses off conservatives, they feel like Democrats would rather bend over backwards to help illegal immigrants and refugees, people from other countries than their own citizens. I live in a relatively conservative area and I’ve heard people say stuff to the effect of just wait as soon as Biden takes over the first thing they will do is open up the borders for all the illegals to come through at their leisure. I think things like that and this never ending attempt to redress past wrongdoings pushes the buttons of conservatives and makes them feel like they will be targeted. All this culture of victimhood and slicing people into aggrieved combinations of victim groups I believe causes a lot more social and political unrest than it solves. I heard a recording of Warnock, whom Obama has endorsed saying that America needs to repent for its worship of whiteness, now if you are a white working class conservative how can you not see that sort of language as a threat? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/74 "2020-11-25T17:12:41Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > There is a time when young people are “ready” for sex. There is never a good time to shoplift. That argument may fly with the non-religious Trumpers (who do exist,) but not so much with the religious ones. There are Christians who adamantly insist that _“no sex before marriage means no sex before marriage - if you’re still unmarried by age 55, it still means no sex til 55.”_ (yes, fifty-five was the age used in that discussion) ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/75 "2020-11-25T17:15:24Z")
> [@Author\_Balk](#): > > How many parents would have this type of talk with their child? > > I know a lot of kids your age are shoplifting. I want you to understand this is a bad thing to do. There are serious consequences if you are caught. So, if you decide to do shoplift, here is a jacket you can use. It has a pocket that has a lining. If you put stuff in the pocket the theft detectors won’t detect it. Now, remember I don’t want you to shoplift. > > I would think that a lot of people would consider sex education > be along the same lines. This is an idiotic analogy. Shoplifting is illegal and non-consensual. Sex is legal, consensual and a normal bodily function. If you disagree with teenagers being taught about birth control, find a better argument. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/76 "2020-11-25T17:17:12Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > This is an idiotic analogy. > > Shoplifting is illegal and non-consensual. Sex is legal, consensual and a normal bodily function. > > If you disagree with teenagers being taught about birth control, find a better argument. I don’t think **Author Balk** was _promoting_ that argument - he was simply pointing out that that’s how many people _think_. And yes indeed, there are many who do in fact hold that very belief - that any sex before marriage is religiously prohibited, and that sex education that teaches teens (or any unwed person) how to have “safe sex” is condoning and encouraging something morally bad - the same as teaching kids how to do “safe shoplifting.” ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/77 "2020-11-25T17:20:59Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > > [@Akaj](#): > > > > This is an idiotic analogy. > > > > Shoplifting is illegal and non-consensual. Sex is legal, consensual and a normal bodily function. > > > > If you disagree with teenagers being taught about birth control, find a better argument. > > I don’t think **Author Balk** was _promoting_ that argument - he was simply saying, that’s how many people _think_. > > And yes indeed, there are many who do in fact hold that very belief - that any sex before marriage is religiously prohibited, and that sex education that teaches teens how to have “safe sex” is condoning and encouraging something morally bad - exactly the same as teaching kids how to do “safe shoplifting.” If that’s the case, I apologize to @Author_Balk. And I understand some people believe it’s wrong to teach teens about birth control. But they still need better arguments than the shoplifting analogy or “the Bible sez.” ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/78 "2020-11-25T17:46:06Z")
> [@Author\_Balk](#): > > How many parents would have this type of talk with their child? > > I know a lot of kids your age are shoplifting. I want you to understand this is a bad thing to do. There are serious consequences if you are caught. So, if you decide to do shoplift, here is a jacket you can use. It has a pocket that has a lining. If you put stuff in the pocket the theft detectors won’t detect it. Now, remember I don’t want you to shoplift. > > I would think that a lot of people would consider sex education > be along the same lines. Whether he promotes the idea or not, I can’t think of a more overt way of saying “These people do in fact consider the REAL crime to be casual sex, and any concerns about killing babies are a secondary consideration compared to the extreme importance of discouraging casual sex.” ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/79 "2020-11-25T17:46:20Z")
She was talking about the House bill. She said “they,” the House, were disrespecting choice by suggesting an abortion ban after 20 weeks would be responsive to the killings, which she said were reprehensible and everyone condemned. There is a whole article about it that someone posted in this thread. So now that that’s all clear - 99? 99.5? ---
**Author:** ![Author\_Balk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Author\_Balk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Author_Balk)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354/80 "2020-11-25T17:47:02Z")
I wasn’t giving my views. I was channeling me in a previous life where I would have made that argument. Go ahead an criticize. My feelings aren’t hurt. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-honest-attempt-to-see-the-other-side-by-a-progressive/926354.md?page=5)