# Ah, milroyj, we barely knew ye. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 13, 2005, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-milroyj-we-barely-knew-ye/303660 "2005-05-13T11:28:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-milroyj-we-barely-knew-ye/303660/61 "2005-05-13T16:42:56Z")
**millroyj** is a creepy piece of shit jerk and I couldn’t be happier that he no longer pollutes my beloved boards with his mind-shit. He never once contributed anything of any worth. There is no anti-conservative bias among mods in regards to banning. That’s just the “working the ref” strategy that has born such great fruit for the Republicans in recent years. If I wanted an all-liberal board, I’d go to Democratic Underground. The value of this board is in the wide variety of viewpoints represented here. I greatly value the (often vexing) opinons of the responsible and intellegent conservative posters here. **millroyj** wasn’t banned for his politics, he was banned because he was a fucking jerkwad of the first order and it should have been done a long time ago. When I see someone banned for politics, whether neo-con, paleo-con, green, communist, or liberal, I’ll leave here and never return. And I think a whole of other people will go with me. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-milroyj-we-barely-knew-ye/303660/62 "2005-05-13T16:50:34Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > What a pea-brain you are. :rolleyes: Brilliant. Is the sort of simplistic legalism you show in looking at Diogenes’ behavior the best you can do, Shodan? Doesn’t the fact that one was trolling and the other was making a rhetorical point matter at all? Honestly, when one of the political cretins is banned, does it have to be symbolic for every bad thing any Republican/Democrat has ever done to a Democrat/Republican? Can’t we just agree that assholes who have nothing relevant to say are not wanted here? I’m used to being one of the very few posters who’s willing to call out people on my own side when they’re being jackasses. Couldn’t any of you look beyond his party affiliation long enough to see that he’s not a useful, contributing member of the boards? Christ, I’d be quite pleased if a number of other political trolls left the boards, on both sides of the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-milroyj-we-barely-knew-ye/303660/63 "2005-05-13T16:53:08Z")
Put me in line behind the others who think this is a Bullshit Banning too. I don’t even know the guy, but I read through the links and the evidence seems pretty weak. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-milroyj-we-barely-knew-ye/303660/64 "2005-05-13T16:54:01Z")
Ditto. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-milroyj-we-barely-knew-ye/303660/65 "2005-05-13T17:03:48Z")
I think it is unseemly to bash a person who cannot defend himself. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-milroyj-we-barely-knew-ye/303660/66 "2005-05-13T17:06:51Z")
Liberal, theoretically, you are right, but considering the quality of his posts, I find it doubtful he would have any substantive things to say in his defense. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-milroyj-we-barely-knew-ye/303660/67 "2005-05-13T17:15:31Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I think it is unseemly to bash a person who cannot defend himself. I understand your sentiment, but if we are not able to discuss the behavior that got a poster banned then it sort of cripples any discussion of whether the ban was warranted, does it not? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-milroyj-we-barely-knew-ye/303660/68 "2005-05-13T17:15:57Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > Put me in line behind the others who think this is a Bullshit Banning too. I don’t even know the guy, but I read through the links and the evidence seems pretty weak. [milroyj was a consummate asshole of the first degree](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=274735). ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-milroyj-we-barely-knew-ye/303660/69 "2005-05-13T17:21:55Z")
I meant what I said to him at the time. Calling one another ass-hat or fuck-nugget or some variation on the theme seems pretty par for the course in the Pit. What he wrote about my stripping my son down for show at first communions, birthday parties or Christmas seemed qualitatively different to me, and well outside of the norm. He’d already made a personal attack against **Guinastasia** that was completely ad hominem and unrelated to the thread. After I read what he wrote about me, it made me envision an angry, bitter little guy hunched over a computer somewhere spewing hateful stuff. For that, I felt very sorry for him and the life I suddenly imagined might be associated with that disposition. I don’t know if that means he should be banned. I didn’t report the post. I made my reply and that was that. I agree that his role on the board was never to provide useful information or be of any help to anyone, but only to show very poor logical skills, poor debate facility, and a high level of nastiness. I liked that about him, though. He was consistent, and provided a baseline to show how low people could go. Everyone has to strive to improve themselves however, and I guess the moderators decided that he could actually go a bit lower than they really cared for. As for me being an unreasonable ass in that thread, perhaps I have. I guess I would invite anyone who cared to offer that opinion to also offer their argument as to why over there. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-milroyj-we-barely-knew-ye/303660/70 "2005-05-13T17:27:33Z")
I’m rather torn on this. On the one hand, i think that at least a couple of the incidents listed as the reason for **milroyj** ’s banning are pretty lame, and not deserving of such harsh treatment. For example, the thread about Mary Jo Kopechne reflected **milroy** s usual level of analytical skill and intellectual nuance, but i don’t think it was any worse than other threads i’ve seen that got a pass. On the other hand, the (now former) poster in question has acted like a complete jackass on so many occasions _without_ being warned that i think it kind of evens out. If you want to see the sort of one-man trainwreck that **milroyj** is capable of, check out [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=274735). His OP, stupid as it was, is the least of his offences. His obtuseness and jerkiness in that thread almost made my head explode. I mean, this is a guy who asks for evidence that the First Lady made a cartain statement. Every time someone provides some more evidence that she did indeed make the statement, he dismisses it as not being a cite. I gave a long quotation of the relevant transcript from my university’s Lexis/Nexis account. The transcript came directly to Lexis/Nexis from the television network in question, ABC. While assuring me that he was “not questioning [my] honesty in any way,” **milroyj** insisted that “Saying that you found it on Lexus/Nexis, but can’t link to it, is not a cite.” By this standard, of course, any reference made to a book, or any other piece of work not available on the internet, in not a cite. Another Doper, **Jimmy Chitwood** actually took the trouble to use Lexis/Nexis’s email feature, and sent the transcript directly to **milroyj**. So, the transcript arrived in his email inbox not from the Doper in question (who, in **milroyj** ’s tiny mind, might have tampered with it), but directly from the Lexis/Nexis database. When asked what he thought, now that he had received a copy of the transcript, our hero’s only response was to say: “Mr. Chitwood sent material that wasn’t asked for. Trainwreck yourself, bitch.” The intellectual dishonesty displayed in that thread was much worse, in my opinion, than some of the other shit that **milroyj** has pulled, because that sort of dishonesty does more than simple abuse or trolling to undermine legitimate debate and rational discussion. Also, as the “other poster” with whom **milroyj** was trading insults in IMHO (the third in the list of his five warnings), i should also point out that **milroyj** had a knack for insulting people by making generalized attacks on their habits or beliefs. For example, in the thread in question, he responded a discussion about vegetarianism and what vegetarians serve their guests by calling vegetarianism “carzy beliefs” and a “fetish.” Now, that might not offically qualify as a personal insult, but it was insulting to every vegetarian in that thread. And because at least one of his comments was addressed directly to me, i responded with an insult of my own. I can’t pretend to cry too many tears over the departure of **milroyj**. All i will miss will be the diversion of marvelling at his idiocy. At the same time, though, i think that some of the listed warnings that led to his banning are pretty crappy and not deserving of such a penalty. And this leads me to another point about the whole issue of banning. I’ve already mentioned that i was the person with whom **milroyj** was trading insults, in one of the incidents that led to his banning. This leads me to believe that i probably have (at least) one warning against my name, about which i knew nothing up until this moment. I have always been under the impression that the sort of warnings that lead to bannings are usually given formally, either in the thread itself (e.g., “Consider this a formal warning”), or in an email from the staff. Yet the only Moderator intervention in that thread was **Czarcasm** saying: “If you two want to exchange apologies, you may do so, but this will be dropped now.” Doesn’t really sound like the sort of formal warning that i’ve always assumed was necessary to count towards a banning. And if, like me, **milroyj** received no email from the staff about his behavior in that thread, how the flying fuck was he supposed to know that **Czarcasm** ’s rather mild admonition constituted a formal warning? I mean, **milroyj** was as thick as two short planks at the best of times; it’s a bit unfair to expect him to draw subtle inferences from heavily-veiled “warnings.” I think some clarification from the board Admin about exactly what constitutes a warning might be in order here. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-milroyj-we-barely-knew-ye/303660/71 "2005-05-13T17:30:50Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I understand your sentiment, but if we are not able to discuss the behavior that got a poster banned then it sort of cripples any discussion of whether the ban was warranted, does it not? I don’t think the behavior is limited to any one particular poster. But one name is in the title, and one particular person — a person who cannot respond — is being called a " creepy piece of shit jerk" by Vibrotronica (with his name in bold, no less). And Excalibre has gone so far as to accuse other still active members in good standing of being “political trolls”. The irony of breaking the rules to bash a rules-breaker is sublime. I never said it was a bad idea to discuss bad behavior; what I said was that it is unseemly to bash a person who cannot rise to his own defense. It is a cowardly thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-milroyj-we-barely-knew-ye/303660/72 "2005-05-13T17:31:31Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > If you want to see the sort of one-man trainwreck that **milroyj** is capable of, check out [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=274735). His OP, stupid as it was, is the least of his offences. His obtuseness and jerkiness in that thread almost made my head explode. Hey, that’s the same example I used! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-milroyj-we-barely-knew-ye/303660/73 "2005-05-13T17:33:01Z")
> [@Scott\_plaid](#): > > Liberal, theoretically, you are right, but considering the quality of his posts, I find it doubtful he would have any substantive things to say in his defense. You’ve come a long way since your early days of mindless Christian bashing. But what you just said of Milroyj, others might say of you. Perhaps it is time to take one more small step. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-milroyj-we-barely-knew-ye/303660/74 "2005-05-13T17:36:26Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Hey, that’s the same example I used! 🙂 Yeah, and i seem to remember that, ahem, “someone” recently mistook me for **milroyj** based on that very thread. I wonder who that was? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![groupwbench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6a8cbe/32.png) [@groupwbench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groupwbench)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-milroyj-we-barely-knew-ye/303660/75 "2005-05-13T17:38:00Z")
danger nitpick ahead > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I **Milroy’s** post about **Hentor** “disrobing” his child was at least as nasty as anything I said. He basically accused Hentor of molesting his his son and he had several previous warnings. How many chances is he supposed to get? This is what he actually said: > [@milroyj](#): > > Really? I’m surprised. From your posts, it seems like disrobing your child in a restaurant would be perfectly acceptable to you. Or do you just save that particular performance for special occasions, say birthday parties, 1st communions, and Christmas? :dubious: I agree with most of the folks here - the guy was not a prize at all, however based on the information provided on his banning, this seems lame as hell. So I call Bullshit on the “molestation” accusation and the banning. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-milroyj-we-barely-knew-ye/303660/76 "2005-05-13T17:42:09Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I never said it was a bad idea to discuss bad behavior; what I said was that it is unseemly to bash a person who cannot rise to his own defense. It is a cowardly thing to do. Well, if someone never took the time to criticise him when he _was_ here, and is now thaking the opportunity of his departure to bash him, then i sort of agree. But, in most cases—and definitely in mine—people are saying nothing now that they didn’t say to **milroyj** ’s face on multiple occasions while he was here. Every accusation i made about him in my earlier post, i’ve made before in arguments and debates with him, and he has responded in his inimitable style. I feel no guilt or cowardice about simply repeating the same stuff in a different thread. I linked to the main discussion for which i was lambasting him. People are free to read that discussion, and the others to which i referred, and make up their own mind about whether or not my criticisms are reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-milroyj-we-barely-knew-ye/303660/77 "2005-05-13T17:44:36Z")
> [@groupwbench](#): > > danger nitpick ahead > > This is what he actually said: > > I agree with most of the folks here - the guy was not a prize at all, however based on the information provided on his banning, this seems lame as hell. So I call Bullshit on the “molestation” accusation and the banning. I call bullshit on your bullshit call. What was he trying to suggest by saying that **Hentor** was “disrobing” his kid (false in itself) and calling it a “performance?” You don’t like “molestation?” Well maybe you can think of a better word for an accusation that someone would strip his kid naked for a “performance” at birthday parties. At the very least, it was grossly insensitive and I personally read it as an insinuation that **Hentor** was deriving some sort of pleasure from it. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-milroyj-we-barely-knew-ye/303660/78 "2005-05-13T17:50:07Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > At the very least, it was grossly insensitive and I personally read it as an insinuation that **Hentor** was deriving some sort of pleasure from it. I think you read the insinuation wrong; I think he was saying that **Hentor** made an act of performance art out of giving his son his shots. Could be wrong. _shrug_ Certainly insensitive, and by far not his only insensitive post in that thread. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-milroyj-we-barely-knew-ye/303660/79 "2005-05-13T17:52:12Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Well, if someone never took the time to criticise him when he _was_ here, and is now thaking the opportunity of his departure to bash him, then i sort of agree. > > But, in most cases—and definitely in mine—people are saying nothing now that they didn’t say to **milroyj** ’s face on multiple occasions while he was here. Every accusation i made about him in my earlier post, i’ve made before in arguments and debates with him, and he has responded in his inimitable style. I feel no guilt or cowardice about simply repeating the same stuff in a different thread. > > I linked to the main discussion for which i was lambasting him. People are free to read that discussion, and the others to which i referred, and make up their own mind about whether or not my criticisms are reasonable. I think your position is a sensible one, and your intention strikes the right balance. If you are quoting his previous posts and your previous responses, then you’re being fair. I personally do not enjoy walking that sort of tightrope, and frankly don’t think I’m capable of it. But over the years, you have consistently demonstrated a rare evenhandedness that most of us only aspire to. I didn’t mean to come in and piss on everyone’s parade, but the examples that I cited are clearly infractions — Vibrotronica’s of common decency, and Excalibre’s of explicit rules. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2005, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-milroyj-we-barely-knew-ye/303660/80 "2005-05-13T17:58:45Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > [milroyj was a consummate asshole of the first degree](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=274735). > [@mhendo](#): > > If you want to see the sort of one-man trainwreck that **milroyj** is capable of, check out [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=274735). His OP, stupid as it was, is the least of his offences. His obtuseness and jerkiness in that thread almost made my head explode. I looked up this thread. After the first page, in which you, ElvisL1ves, and others when on to disprove his claim, he went on for _three more pages_. Frankly, I can not understand why you didn’t just tell him he is an idiot, leave the thread, and ignore him. Then again, I don’t know why I do not do the same thing about people who bash the right to gay marriage. > [@Liberal](#): > > You’ve come a long way since your early days of mindless Christian bashing. But what you just said of Milroyj, others might say of you. Perhaps it is time to take one more small step. 😃😃 Liberal, I still feel the same way now as I did then. I see people claiming that “bashing bush, the first two SW films, and christianity” is mindless, and this argument is without base. People do not put down Lucas’s ability to make films based on the fact they hate him, they do so because the most recent films were crap. People do not bash bush because they hate him, they do so because he is responsible for a war they believed would be without merit, as indeed it is. Likewise, I started threads attacking holes in christian theology because I believe the whole structure of it is flawed. (God telling people to kill other people, and the sheer number of people killed due to religion., for one thing.) Oh, and lest you think I only hate christianity, [here](http://www.thehappyheretic.com/08-04.htm) is a link to an essay bashing the religion I grew up with, Judaism. P.S. groupwbench, I see no other way to read that statement. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-milroyj-we-barely-knew-ye/303660.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-milroyj-we-barely-knew-ye/303660.md?page=5)