# Ah, yes, how inclusive & tolerant the Republicans are... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 26, 2003, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-yes-how-inclusive-tolerant-the-republicans-are/171392 "2003-04-26T21:53:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MeanJoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanjoe/32/5693_2.png) [@MeanJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanJoe)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-yes-how-inclusive-tolerant-the-republicans-are/171392/21 "2003-04-28T13:54:51Z")
I really don’t mean to be a dick here but can I ask an honest question? - Why are people blasting a politician who recognizes the political realities of the electorite for which he/she represents? Seriously, even the CFO of the Kentucky Democratic Party admits it wouldn’t fly with the voting public. Is that the political party’s fault or the public’s lack of tolerance/understanding? MeanJoe - Who, for the record, is a Publican too but in favor of gay-rights and has a vitrolic dislike of the Religious Right’s influence within the Grand Ole’ Party. ---
**Author:** ![MeanJoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanjoe/32/5693_2.png) [@MeanJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanJoe)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-yes-how-inclusive-tolerant-the-republicans-are/171392/22 "2003-04-28T13:59:26Z")
**Beagle** Hardly a fair assumption based upon a limited comments by Tattrie. Do you have anything to support your opinion, the comments in the article certainly do not. Finally - Hooray for Dean, we need more like 'em! I hope he doesn’t get McCain’d. (Who will always have my respect for speaking out against the Religious Right in the 'Publican party. Too bad it cost him his campaign.) ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-yes-how-inclusive-tolerant-the-republicans-are/171392/23 "2003-04-28T15:35:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MeanJoe \* > \*\*I really don’t mean to be a dick here but can I ask an honest question? > > - Why are people blasting a politician who recognizes the political realities of the electorite for which he/she represents?\*\* No one’s blasting individual politicians for stating political realities. The thread is blasting the Republican Party for fostering those realities while continuing to tell the “Big Tent” lie. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-yes-how-inclusive-tolerant-the-republicans-are/171392/24 "2003-04-28T15:40:09Z")
Well, are they right or are they awrong? Is Dean’s vocal support of civil unions likely to hurt him or help him, overall, in Mississippi? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-yes-how-inclusive-tolerant-the-republicans-are/171392/25 "2003-04-28T16:19:46Z")
> [@](#): > > VO: How do we know Candidate Democrat isn’t gay? Actually, that would be **SweetLucy** , in the second post in this thread. > [@](#): > > I suspect that many of the jerks quoted in the article are, 1) possessing major skeletons in their own closets so therefore they divert attention to an easier target; 2) secretly gay themselves… Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-yes-how-inclusive-tolerant-the-republicans-are/171392/26 "2003-04-28T16:43:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MeanJoe \* > \*\*MeanJoe - Who, for the record, is a Publican too but in favor of gay-rights and has a vitrolic dislike of the Religious Right’s influence within the Grand Ole’ Party. \*\* If you stood up at your local party meeting and started saying that, how far would you get? At the state level? At the national level? ---
**Author:** ![LibrarySpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LibrarySpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LibrarySpy)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-yes-how-inclusive-tolerant-the-republicans-are/171392/27 "2003-04-28T17:13:52Z")
As a gay Southerner, I’m in complete agreement with SweetLucy’s opinion. There are plenty of gay Southerners, and a rich culture–admittedly more in the “New South” states along the East Coast. I’d be downright impolite to condemn the decent, neighborly, god-fearing queers at the local/grass-roots level. Making it a national issue makes it a those-bastards-down-in-Washington-tellin’-us-what-to-do situation, which is never pretty. Of course, I don’t cast my votes based on gay politics, and I’d think non-gays would have even less of a reason to do so. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-yes-how-inclusive-tolerant-the-republicans-are/171392/28 "2003-04-28T18:19:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > To me that’s like saying half of all Democrats couid be termed as hippies. And when Clinton was president, he nominated a whole bunch of NORML members to the court, demonstrating the hippies’ clout in the party, right? **Poly** , Northeastern Republicanism is way left of the GOP mainstream. Dunno about the Research Triangle area, but city residents are generally more liberal than rural folk, as evidenced by the infamous map of “Red America” and “Blue America” after the 2000 election. But you asked for a cite. The best I could do was [this poll](http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/beliefnet_poll_010718.html), which doesn’t get you there directly. 83% of Americans call themselves Christians; 37% of those consider themselves evangelical Christians, for about 31% of the population as a whole. If a little over half of them would fit whatever definition one might have of ‘religious right’, whether you’d have about half of the GOP depends on who’s polling for party affiliation, and how hard they try to push independents into leaning one way or the other. But overall, a good guess is that about 1/4 of America is independent, with the other 3/4 evenly divided between the two parties. If not half, then pretty close. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-yes-how-inclusive-tolerant-the-republicans-are/171392/29 "2003-04-28T18:32:57Z")
RTF: I don’t see how that cite really supports you. It doesn’t break anything down by political affiliation. I don’t know that “evangelical” is the same as religious right. Perhaps you need to define the term. Note also that 48% of blacks are Baptists. Does that count as religious right? Aren’t they evangelical? Are you counting Catholics in the religious right? Lots and lots of Democratic Catholics. I think there’s a lot of protestants in there who would be surprised to be lumped with the religious right as well. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-yes-how-inclusive-tolerant-the-republicans-are/171392/30 "2003-04-28T18:34:28Z")
Oh, and it does say that only 40 some percent of white evangelical protestants associate themselves as conservative. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-yes-how-inclusive-tolerant-the-republicans-are/171392/31 "2003-04-28T18:45:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > I don’t see how that cite really supports you. It doesn’t break anything down by political affiliation. Well, I did say “the best I can do.” > [@](#): > > Oh, and it does say that only 40 some percent of white evangelical protestants associate themselves as conservative. And that means? No, really. In the south especially, a lot of them may feel quite in the mainstream while supporting Pat Roberton’s entire agenda. And you do notice what it said about the regional distribution of evangelicals. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-yes-how-inclusive-tolerant-the-republicans-are/171392/32 "2003-04-28T19:13:39Z")
RTF: > [@](#): > > Well, I did say “the best I can do.” Sure. Your cite though, rather than supporting your statement seems to again highlight that your estimate looks very high unless you choose to define “religious right,” in a broad and inclusive fashion. ---
**Author:** ![MeanJoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanjoe/32/5693_2.png) [@MeanJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanJoe)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-yes-how-inclusive-tolerant-the-republicans-are/171392/33 "2003-04-28T20:50:59Z")
Freyr said: > [@](#): > > If you stood up at your local party meeting and started saying that, how far would you get? At the state level? At the national level? A couple points: 1.) I am not involved , by my definition of “involved”, in the local or state or (God forbid) national level politics. If I were involved, at least locally, I actually believe it would not be a “death blow” here in Columbus, Ohio. This is actually a fairly progressive city and has one of the largest (per capita) gay communities in the nation. Beyond the local level, well… I guess that is my point - let’s not brow-beat someone for simply acknowledging the politic reality in some parts of the country. 2.) I suppose the argument could be made that I am not a part of the solution since I am not actively involved at the local level at a minimum. Since this is not GD, I will only respond with “I vote!” :wally Seriously though, I could/should do more than I do. I’m mostly overwhelmed at times and do not find time for that, or volunteer work, or “cleansing” myself properly, or even getting dressed sometimes. 😃 My involvement tends to fall along the lines of enjoyment of the artistic areas of our town (The Short North) and the galleries, going to the Gay Pride parades to support my friends who typically march each year, etc. Not exactly the activist, huh? Otto said: > [@](#): > > No one’s blasting individual politicians for stating political realities. The thread is blasting the Republican Party for fostering those realities while continuing to tell the “Big Tent” lie. I’m sorry, it seemed to me that was exactly what was going on. I had not seen much in the way of argument about “fostering those realities” in this thread. I appreciate what you are saying to clarify the OP. I am curious, although I probably do not disagree with your observations so far, but how are they fostering those ideas and why is the “Big Tent” a lie? At least in regards to the “Big Tent” lie, to me even if it does not have the loudest voice there is still a significant amount of the party that is not in favor of the religious right’s agenda and hijacking of the platform. As with all major changes, the shift to the religious right didn’t happen overnight and it’ll take time to (hopefully) get the more moderate or “social liberals” in the party to have influence. Michael ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2003, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-yes-how-inclusive-tolerant-the-republicans-are/171392/34 "2003-04-28T21:36:16Z")
> [@](#): > > **there is still a significant amount of the party that is not in favor of the religious right’s agenda and hijacking of the platform** Then why is it still a plank in the platform? _That_ is what belies the “Big Tent”. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2003, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-yes-how-inclusive-tolerant-the-republicans-are/171392/35 "2003-04-29T03:14:58Z")
Another thing that bugs me about the article: the survey mentioned in the story says that most Americans don’t want homosexuality to be illegal, even if they do think it’s immoral. Even if that’s a true “political reality,” the Republican party still seems to be doing everything it can to MAKE it illegal (or at least restrict their lives legally in as many ways as possible), in clear opposition to the nation’s apparent will. ---
**Author:** ![TeleTronOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4af34b/32.png) [@TeleTronOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeleTronOne)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2003, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-yes-how-inclusive-tolerant-the-republicans-are/171392/36 "2003-04-29T04:10:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Leaper \* > \*\*For me, as with **december** , it was the tone of the piece, especially on such a nationally popular source as Fox News (tho’ even that shouldn’t surprise me, I suppose). It was so nasty above what I usually expect that I was stirred, in a sense. > > As a result of this article, I fully expect Republican ads like this in 2004: > > VOICEOVER: Candidate Democrat loves flaming gays. > > [dramatic chord] > > VO: Candidate Democrat wants to let them marry and give them the same rights as god-fearing Christians. > > [dramatic chord] > > VO: How do we know Candidate Democrat isn’t gay? > > [dramatic chord] > > VO: Candidate Democrat wants to destroy the family, and the moral fiber of this nation, everything that we went to war to preserve. > > [dramatic chord] > > VO: Candidate Democrat: bad for families. Bad for America. > > (Sprinkle with provocative still images to taste.) \*\* This reminds me of something. I was living in Hawaii when the Gay Marraige amendment (?) was in the polls. You SHOULD HAVE SEEN THE COMMERCIALS. They make what you posted seem tame. Ugh. Sickening, absolutely sickening. I’m not gay, but I was offended by them, as I think any decent person would be. Ugh. Thinking about them makes me queasy. If I can find some transcripts or video or something, I’ll post a link, but don’t hold your breath – I’m not exactly in a hurry to further scar my retinas by seeing those bigoted pieces of crap. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2003, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-yes-how-inclusive-tolerant-the-republicans-are/171392/37 "2003-04-29T04:29:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Spit \* > \*\ ***ShaneVA** - Have you ever visited [insert city here] California? Hands down the most racist lot I personally have seen. > \*\* This is interesting. I’m a third generation Californian and have lived here all of my life and am really taken aback by this. I’ve always lived in or very near large cities (the Napa Valley, where I live now, is the farthest away from a big city i’ve lived) and I’ve never really seen too much racism. I say that because I’m white, so I may not notice things others do. I’ve also lived in places where being white, I’m in the minority, and didn’t see much racism then, either. Where in California have you visited??? Outside of the Central Valley maybe, I’ve got no idea what the hell you’re talking about. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![MeanJoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanjoe/32/5693_2.png) [@MeanJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanJoe)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2003, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-yes-how-inclusive-tolerant-the-republicans-are/171392/38 "2003-04-29T12:36:24Z")
Homebrew said: > [@](#): > > Then why is it still a plank in the platform? That is what belies the “Big Tent”. I do not think we need to really explain the factors involved with the Religious Right’s influence being in excess of their true numbers do we? I believe that it’ll be a long time coming before a large enough influence is applied within the GOP to result in a platform change to favor gay-rights initiatives. Think civil rights, we are over 30 years removed from marches and we’ve still got good old boy racists in the South (East, West, and North too but they dress better!) I am not arguing that the Republican party is at the forefront of this issue, not with a straight face at least. 😃 Any legislative changes in the near future will most likely be Democrat initiatives. However, keep in mind that not all Republicans are automatically anti-gay. Some of us love you alternative lifestyle types. 😉 (That was a joke, relax.) MeanJoe ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2003, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-yes-how-inclusive-tolerant-the-republicans-are/171392/39 "2003-04-29T14:22:36Z")
[More Big Tent Lies](http://www.planetout.com/pno/news/article.html?2003/04/28/2) It seems the Republican National Conference is planning to use Civil Unions and Gay Rights as a wedge-issue this year > [@](#): > > On the RNC research Web page titled “Who is Howard Dean?” the first talking point mentioned is Dean’s stand on civil unions. The page on North Carolina Sen. John Edwards is critical of his stand on voting for hate crimes legislation, while the page on Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry talks about his vote against the Defense of Marriage Act. > > “Certainly the RNC has done things like this before, both in the 2000 election cycle and in 2002,” said NSD media and field director John Marble to the [Gay.com/PlanetOut.com](http://Gay.com/PlanetOut.com) Network. “What makes this situation a little bit different is Chairman Racicot promised not to let these kinds of attacks occur under his leadership, yet he has gone back on his word.” Big Tent my ass. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2003, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-yes-how-inclusive-tolerant-the-republicans-are/171392/40 "2003-04-29T15:10:56Z")
In a two party system, you have to go with the lesser of two evils at times. I disagree with the Republicans in this case. I happen to think sexual orientation is determined by brain chemistry at birth, and therefore not a choice made to offend the anal-retentive and the homophobic. That said, I find the positions on the left for the most part to be naive and unworkable without moving toward a socialistic society. Therefore I vote Republican…but sometimes I don’t like it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-yes-how-inclusive-tolerant-the-republicans-are/171392.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ah-yes-how-inclusive-tolerant-the-republicans-are/171392.md?page=3)