# AHAHAHAHAHH! "Baby simulators" backfire and result in more teen motherhood! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 2, 2016, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahahahahahh-baby-simulators-backfire-and-result-in-more-teen-motherhood/764765 "2016-09-02T11:08:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahahahahahh-baby-simulators-backfire-and-result-in-more-teen-motherhood/764765/21 "2016-09-02T17:16:52Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > The piece I heard on NPR said that outcomes don’t change. It doesn’t have to do with the baby - it has to do with the opportunities available if you are poor. By the time the baby comes - or doesn’t - a poor girl’s life has usually been set. > > And motherhood is the one accomplishment she feels she can have. And that once a baby comes along - when the child is young - her support network becomes more supportive - so yes, she actually does better having a child at 17, because there isn’t a living wage job waiting for her at 18 and she hasn’t been set up for educational success. That may be so for those in the lower economic bracket. But in reading the linked article in the OP, it’s no clear to me that this study looked exclusively at only those girls who are less economically advantaged. Those in the middle and upper middle class may have benefited from the exercise. Granted, they are at lower risk, statistically. But let’s say the toy dolls are determined to be a not very effective deterrent to teenage pregnancy. Does that mean it was the only method used? Does it mean all others are equally non-productive? Or maybe it means that for some strange reason it’s not particularly effective with those in the lower socio-economic end of the spectrum? Whatever the conclusion we draw from this study, I don’t know how it can be reasonably concluded that young girls who are socio-economically and educationally disadvantaged should just resign themselves to teenage baby making because many still live at home with their parents. Nor should the OP be celebrating in glee because he gets some perverse joy out of children having children. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahahahahahh-baby-simulators-backfire-and-result-in-more-teen-motherhood/764765/22 "2016-09-02T17:26:34Z")
**Shodan** , you are begging the question. Do you really think the young women who are starting motherhood at age 16 have the kind of personality and mindset that, if they for instance were unable to become pregnant, would end up graduating from law school by age 25 instead of having three or four kids by that time? And didn’t the people who Instituted this program consider that the kind of people who find caring for a baby to be too much bother are probably not the sort of go-getters who are going to get advanced degrees and compete in a high-powered corporate work environment? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahahahahahh-baby-simulators-backfire-and-result-in-more-teen-motherhood/764765/23 "2016-09-02T17:31:06Z")
I would add that a lot of the women who do go on to be high-powered corporate lawyers etc. would be better off having their kids as teenagers and not later facing the stress and expense and heartbreak of infertility. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahahahahahh-baby-simulators-backfire-and-result-in-more-teen-motherhood/764765/24 "2016-09-02T17:33:48Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Just for thought… in most teen pregnancies, the father is notably older **than the mother**. > [@VinylTurnip](#): > > In all of them, I’d say. We’re talking about a baby here. Happy? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahahahahahh-baby-simulators-backfire-and-result-in-more-teen-motherhood/764765/25 "2016-09-02T17:45:23Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I would add that a lot of the women who do go on to be high-powered corporate lawyers etc. would be better off having their kids as teenagers and not later facing the stress and expense and heartbreak of infertility. “Okay, class, this is to be an exercise in teen motherhood. In just a moment, I’m going to walk around and collect all of your condoms, birth control pills, diaphragms, IUDs, sponges— \*anything \*that can be used as a contraceptive goes in the bag.” “Awwww, Mr. **SlackerInc**!” “Now, now, you’ll get them all back at the end of the semester. Earlier, if you show me a plus sign on the tester.” ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahahahahahh-baby-simulators-backfire-and-result-in-more-teen-motherhood/764765/26 "2016-09-02T17:54:53Z")
Someone’s been watching _Wayward Pines_ season 2… ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahahahahahh-baby-simulators-backfire-and-result-in-more-teen-motherhood/764765/27 "2016-09-02T18:15:18Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > **Shodan** , you are begging the question. Do you really think the young women who are starting motherhood at age 16 have the kind of personality and mindset that, if they for instance were unable to become pregnant, would end up graduating from law school by age 25 instead of having three or four kids by that time? Did you happen to read the cites? Apparently not. So it goes. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahahahahahh-baby-simulators-backfire-and-result-in-more-teen-motherhood/764765/28 "2016-09-02T18:18:40Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Just for thought… in most teen pregnancies, the father is notably older. Cite please for the father being notably older than the mother. I’m not surprised - girls mature earlier than boys - but I’d like to see a cite. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahahahahahh-baby-simulators-backfire-and-result-in-more-teen-motherhood/764765/29 "2016-09-02T18:25:49Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Do you really think the young women who are starting motherhood at age 16 have the kind of personality and mindset that, if they for instance were unable to become pregnant, would end up graduating from law school by age 25 instead of having three or four kids by that time? Maybe the manufacturer of the baby robot just wanted to decrease the number of lawyers, and their hidden agenda has been a smashing success? Didn’t think of that, did you, tough guy? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahahahahahh-baby-simulators-backfire-and-result-in-more-teen-motherhood/764765/30 "2016-09-02T19:19:11Z")
Sneaky! ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahahahahahh-baby-simulators-backfire-and-result-in-more-teen-motherhood/764765/31 "2016-09-02T20:27:51Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > …highly dubious …“basking in the schaudenfruede” Color me genuinely confused but willing to learn from you and others. I don’t pretend to be an expert on how things are in the US these days, given that I’ve lived abroad for a long time. ISTM that a program to show potential teen parents that babies are fucking HARD is a good thing. Doing it by giving them “babies” is a way to test this. If you then study the results and find it works, awesome! You’ve shown that you have a policy worth expanding. OTOH, If you study the results and find that your well-meaning efforts did not produce the results you wanted, well…oopsie, let’s be good rationalists, acknowledge that our well-meaning intervention did not produce the results we hoped for, and move on, hopefully to a better program that produces improved results. “Basking in the schadenfreude” is distasteful and smacks of some other political agenda. Who actually takes pleasure in screwing up the lives of teenagers? I’d like to help kids avoid teen pregnancies in the most effective way possible. What would **you** like to accomplish? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahahahahahh-baby-simulators-backfire-and-result-in-more-teen-motherhood/764765/32 "2016-09-02T20:36:03Z")
I have a rock that stops bear attacks. It always worked for me. I gave it to a friend who hunts a lot and he was attacked by bear. What on earth went wrong? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahahahahahh-baby-simulators-backfire-and-result-in-more-teen-motherhood/764765/33 "2016-09-02T21:30:48Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > Color me genuinely confused but willing to learn from you and others. I don’t pretend to be an expert on how things are in the US these days, given that I’ve lived abroad for a long time. > > ISTM that a program to show potential teen parents that babies are fucking HARD is a good thing. Doing it by giving them “babies” is a way to test this. If you then study the results and find it works, awesome! You’ve shown that you have a policy worth expanding. > > OTOH, If you study the results and find that your well-meaning efforts did not produce the results you wanted, well…oopsie, let’s be good rationalists, acknowledge that our well-meaning intervention did not produce the results we hoped for, and move on, hopefully to a better program that produces improved results. > > “Basking in the schadenfreude” is distasteful and smacks of some other political agenda. Who actually takes pleasure in screwing up the lives of teenagers? > > I’d like to help kids avoid teen pregnancies in the most effective way possible. What would **you** like to accomplish? It’s still unclear to me whether the OP thinks that teen pregnancy is something that should not be discouraged but rather celebrated, as some sort of perverse endorsement of “traditional family values,” or whether he just believes that the only girls who are going to end up pregnant are dummies who can’t be talked out of breeding anyway and deserve whatever misfortune they get. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahahahahahh-baby-simulators-backfire-and-result-in-more-teen-motherhood/764765/34 "2016-09-02T21:48:55Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > Color me genuinely confused but willing to learn from you and others. I don’t pretend to be an expert on how things are in the US these days, given that I’ve lived abroad for a long time. > > ISTM that a program to show potential teen parents that babies are fucking HARD is a good thing. Doing it by giving them “babies” is a way to test this. If you then study the results and find it works, awesome! You’ve shown that you have a policy worth expanding. > > OTOH, If you study the results and find that your well-meaning efforts did not produce the results you wanted, well…oopsie, let’s be good rationalists, acknowledge that our well-meaning intervention did not produce the results we hoped for, and move on, hopefully to a better program that produces improved results. > > “Basking in the schadenfreude” is distasteful and smacks of some other political agenda. Who actually takes pleasure in screwing up the lives of teenagers? > > I’d like to help kids avoid teen pregnancies in the most effective way possible. What would **you** like to accomplish? Ha! Typical CW thinking. That’s how we got into this mess in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahahahahahh-baby-simulators-backfire-and-result-in-more-teen-motherhood/764765/35 "2016-09-02T22:49:03Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > It’s still unclear to me whether the OP thinks that teen pregnancy is something that should not be discouraged but rather celebrated, as some sort of perverse endorsement of “traditional family values,” or whether he just believes that the only girls who are going to end up pregnant are dummies who can’t be talked out of breeding anyway and deserve whatever misfortune they get. “Chiks made bad lawyers and old ladies wish they had mor babies hur hur.” ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahahahahahh-baby-simulators-backfire-and-result-in-more-teen-motherhood/764765/36 "2016-09-02T22:56:57Z")
I still wonder if after 50+ years of the Pill we’re seeing a selective effect: today’s women are the daughters and granddaughters of women who chose to breed (or at least were careless enough to not prevent it). ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahahahahahh-baby-simulators-backfire-and-result-in-more-teen-motherhood/764765/37 "2016-09-03T04:04:53Z")
**Lumpy** , we must at least be seeing the beginning of that. **Cairo Carol** and **Vinyl Turnip** , the answer is “none of the above”. I am a sex-positive progressive atheist, but I do also have a soft spot for babies and parenting (I have four kids of my own, and both my wives were in their early twenties for their first pregnancies). I don’t think teenage girls should be slut-shamed for being sexual beings, and I do think they should get good, accurate sex ed and access to contraception if they want it, but I don’t believe they should be propagandized into considering young motherhood some dire situation to avoid at all costs, and I definitely oppose pressuring them into abortion or adoption. Does that clear up where I am coming from? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahahahahahh-baby-simulators-backfire-and-result-in-more-teen-motherhood/764765/38 "2016-09-03T11:25:12Z")
Absolutely. You’re looking for wife #3. Preferably a young one without any big ideas about going to college and having a career to interfere with the baby making. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahahahahahh-baby-simulators-backfire-and-result-in-more-teen-motherhood/764765/39 "2016-09-03T14:05:09Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I would add that a lot of the women who do go on to be high-powered corporate lawyers etc. would be better off having their kids as teenagers and not later facing the stress and expense and heartbreak of infertility. Yeah ! Cause going through tough, competitive universities (like law, medicine, high tech etc…) with no income \*\*and \*\*a baby in your bag is just a breath of fresh air. Plus young mothers find it so easy to find and keep boyfriends, too ! ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahahahahahh-baby-simulators-backfire-and-result-in-more-teen-motherhood/764765/40 "2016-09-03T15:22:01Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Absolutely. You’re looking for wife #3. Preferably a young one without any big ideas about going to college and having a career to interfere with the baby making. Given that my wife has two masters degrees (yup, went to school pregnant and later, pumped milk between classes), that’d be a no. > **[Get pregnant at 25 if you want a high-powered career - Penelope Trunk Careers](https://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2012/06/25/get-pregnant-at-25-if-you-want-a-high-powered-career/)** > > Every once in a while a high-profile woman will divulge the dirty underbelly of trying to be a woman in the work world. I remember the first time I saw it. It was when Brenda Barnes stepped down from a huge career at Pepsi to be with her kids. And... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahahahahahh-baby-simulators-backfire-and-result-in-more-teen-motherhood/764765.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahahahahahh-baby-simulators-backfire-and-result-in-more-teen-motherhood/764765.md?page=3)