# Ahh, the aroma of ashtrays **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 26, 2005, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655 "2005-05-26T20:01:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/41 "2005-05-27T14:59:10Z")
> [@GaWd](#): > > Christ. Do any other smokers feel as if they are being cowed into quitting just because other non-smokers are so militantly against smoking? Quite the opposite. I almost feel duty-bound to keep smoking just as a way to defy the sanctimonious assclowns who feel it is their right to tell me what to do and who think they can call me nasty and disgusting with impunity. If it weren’t for these rectal haberdashers I may have quit years ago. Sanctimonious non-smokers cause lung cancer. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/42 "2005-05-27T15:25:57Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Geez, try to stay non-smelly out of consideration for your cow-orkers, and this is the thanks you get. So let me get this straight. Some smokers don’t mind smelling like an ash-tray, but for the benefit of others they try and avoid it? Yeah, right. Smokers do this because they find smoke stinks, but they don’t mind their lungs getting it full on. Just pointing out the contradiction. > [@](#): > > What most non-smokers don’t seem to get is that smokers tend to be non-conformists. It’s probably the reason so many of us started in the first place. Ha! Ask most smokers why they start and it’s a tale of “all my friends”, “was offered one”, “fitting in at social events”. Don’t ever remember hearing “no-one else was smoking, so unprompted I went out and bought my own to stand out from the crowd”. Non-conformists! Don’t make me laugh! > [@](#): > > If it weren’t for these rectal haberdashers I may have quit years ago. If it wasn’t for people moaning at me to stop elbowing them in the face I’d have stopped elbowing people in the face ages ago. So it’s their fault they get an elbow in the face, and I’ve got sore elbows. Bastards! :rolleyes: Anyway, I’m breaking one of my own rules here; Don’t argue with addicts about their drug. Their objectivity is fatally compromised by their addiction. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/43 "2005-05-27T15:26:57Z")
What ever happened to “mind your own fucking business”?? Here’s a clue. After years of all the anti bullshit, about who is offended by everything anyone does, None Of Us Give A Fuck Anymore. Shut the hell up and mind your own business. Arrogant controlling bastards 😛 ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/44 "2005-05-27T15:38:36Z")
> [@Futile Gesture](#): > > So let me get this straight. Some smokers don’t mind smelling like an ash-tray, but for the benefit of others they try and avoid it? Yeah, right. Smokers do this because they find smoke stinks, but they don’t mind their lungs getting it full on. Just pointing out the contradiction. What can I say? You’re simply wrong here. The reason smokers try to avoid smelling like smoke is because they want to avoid snarky comments from people like you. No contradiction at all. > [@](#): > > Ha! Ask most smokers why they start and it’s a tale of “all my friends”, “was offered one”, “fitting in at social events”. Sure. Fitting in with all the other non-conformists. 🙂 If you actually knew me, you’d know how non-conformist I actually am. Or, you can choose to continue to walow in ignorance. > [@](#): > > Anyway, I’m breaking one of my own rules here; Don’t argue with addicts about their drug. Their objectivity is fatally compromised by their addiction. Much in the same way that it’s futile to argue with bigots. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/45 "2005-05-27T15:44:58Z")
> [@GaWd](#): > > What in the **fuck** do you care how deep they inhale, ir if they inhale at all? Remove your sanctimonious nose from their asses, and get off your fucking high-horse, all of you prick nonsmokers. I am sick to death of this new anti-smoking attitude. It makes me want to light up in certain places where the attitude towards smoking is so negative, just to piss people like you off. > > Christ. Do any other smokers feel as if they are being cowed into quitting just because other non-smokers are so militantly against smoking? Pisses me off to no end. > > Sam Preach it **GaWd**. I’ve heard people moaning about me taking smoke breaks. I’ve gone up to them and reminded them about the 30 fucking mins they spent only that morning cooing over a baby some co-worker brought in and all the other times they’ve withered on about some stupid soap opera on the box. If I get my work done my manager is happy, fuck the rest of them. They don’t keep me in my job. If you are being forced into doing someone’s work unfairly, grow a pair and complain to your manager. If that doesn’t work then go to their manager. I’ve worked in companies were it was very hard to go out and smoke. I didn’t go out. I’ve never however worked for a company that had managers who could not control their workforce. If people are taking the piss they need to be dealt with. I try to be a very considerate smoker but rude ignorant anti-smoking fucks just make me want to take a cigar out and puff away while sitting on their sanctimonious knee. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Bird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Little\_Bird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Bird)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/46 "2005-05-27T16:24:21Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > When I quit it’s going to be because it’s a decision I’ve made on my own, and not because some sanctimonious prick called me nasty and disgusting. Well then quit whining about people segregating your stinky ass because of your very own decision not to quit. No one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to smoke. > [@This Year's Model](#): > > That’s entirely up to me, isn’t it? Matter of fact, I’m wearing a nicotine patch even as I type this - pissant attitudes like yours make me want to rip it off and go buy a pack of straight Camels. And I applaud you for deciding to quit. In a few years when we are alive and ejoying our children and grandchildren and **tdn** is being mourned by his, please allow me to buy you a soda in a smoke free environment. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/47 "2005-05-27T16:40:03Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > So it sounds like the problem is largely with your bosses. I agree totally. You need to have a talk with your boss or bosses. Pick a time when they’re in a relatively good mood at a low stress time. Friday afternoon? Or, even better, a gently worded letter outlining your problems with the smokers in your office. Close the letter with an offer to meet in person with them if necessary. Explain that you feel the brunt of their disapproval when they come to the work area and the smokers are gone and you’re the only one there. If done very diplomatically and politely, who knows? It’s worth a try isn’t it? (unless of course you already know your bosses to be inhuman and inhumane trolls who couldn’t see reason if it slapped them to sleep). ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/48 "2005-05-27T16:55:32Z")
> [@Little Bird](#): > > Well then quit whining about people segregating your stinky ass because of your very own decision not to quit. No one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to smoke. I understand that it is my decision to continue to smoke, and I fully accept any health consequences I might face. I also understand that others don’t like to smell smoke, and I take reasonable precautions not to offend. But just how much derision do you think I deserve? Is it limitless? Do you think there is no amount to which I can say “enough already”? Unless you’ve been a smoker in modern America, you probably don’t know how bad it has gotten. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/49 "2005-05-27T16:58:29Z")
> [@GaWd](#): > > I don’t know a single smoker who takes 20 minutes per hour to smoke. I have a hunch that you and the OP know some really rude smokers… Well, I’ve been out in the work force for 31 years now (yikes…lord I’m so old…sigh). 36 if you count my babysitting and goat milking (MILKING you gutterminds :D, MILKING as in milkmaid) days, and my work experience has leaned in the majority toward the “smokes and chats for 20 minutes each smoke break” smokers. And as **featherlou** suggested, on one of those jobs back in the very early 80s even, me and the other non-smokers did just that, go out each and every time a smoker did. Since it was a company where all hands on deck DID count and count for time (a flight kitchen, where we had to have flights packed and ready at a specific time), the management instituted a “clocked out breaks only” (and those only twice during your shift besides lunch), rule in VERY quick time. Thank goodness for unions. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/50 "2005-05-27T17:03:04Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Or is exaggerating. I’m going to go ahead and assume it’s really only 10-12 minutes, and she’s padding it out for sympathy points. > > Are any other smokers here sick and tired of being treated like 2nd class citizens, and shouldering the blame for everything from baby-killing to nuclear war? I’ve had enough of this shit. No one is treating _smokers_ like second class citizens, we’re annoyed at those who smoke inconsiderately. Since you’re not in that category, this rant is not about you. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/51 "2005-05-27T17:05:30Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Sing it. > > What most non-smokers don’t seem to get is that\*\* smokers tend to be non-conformists. \*\*It’s probably the reason so many of us started in the first place. Try to shame us and prod us and tax us into your squeaky-clean fresh-air world of mindless conformity, and it just makes us want to put a butt out in your eyeball. For spite. Non conformists? Giggle, and yet you’re completely and utterly at the mercy of, and controlled by that tiny little white stick. Hmmmm ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/52 "2005-05-27T17:10:52Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > No one is treating _smokers_ like second class citizens, we’re annoyed at those who smoke inconsiderately. Since you’re not in that category, this rant is not about you. Thanks for that, but I disagree. While most of this thread is about _inconsiderate_ smokers, out in the real world there is real discrimination and derision of _all_ smokers. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/53 "2005-05-27T17:15:48Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > Non conformists? Giggle, and yet you’re completely and utterly at the mercy of, and controlled by that tiny little white stick. Hmmmm Hey, it’s better than being at the mercy of a sheep-like culture. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/54 "2005-05-27T17:23:55Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Hey, it’s better than being at the mercy of a sheep-like culture. 🙂 **tdn** , now you’re really reaching. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/55 "2005-05-27T17:28:24Z")
**Cheesesteak:** _No, it IS the managers. THEY are the ones in charge. THEY are the ones telling you to cover for the smokers. THEY are the ones allowing smokers to be away from the desk 20 minutes per hour._ Well, you’re right that the managers have a duty to fix this situation, but I think the slacking employees bear at least most of the responsibility for causing it. I mean, anybody who downs tools for a third of their working day (and that’s what a 20-minute break every hour amounts to) and expects somebody else to cover for them, on a regular basis, with no reciprocity, is at the very least completely clueless, and at the worst severely inconsiderate and irresponsible. Anybody with half a clue has to realize that if somebody else routinely has to cover for you for about a third of what’s supposed to be your working hours, then you’re not doing your job properly and you’re unfairly burdening your co-workers. And anybody with half a work ethic would therefore not try to get away with that kind of behavior. Even if their boss is willing to tolerate it for some reason. (Notice that I didn’t even use the word “smoker”; I didn’t have to, because this problem is essentially not about smoking, it’s about shirking one’s work. The “ashtray aroma” issue, on the other hand, **is** really about smoking.) **tdn:** _Or is exaggerating. I’m going to go ahead and assume it’s really only 10-12 minutes, and she’s padding it out for sympathy points._ Well, that’s an interesting reaction to a Pit rant, I must say. Next time you start a thread bitching about how it’s been raining all month, we’ll just tell you that you’re exaggerating for sympathy points, and it’s really only been raining two weeks. Or when you complain that developers are going to tear down the nice building next door, we’ll assume that they’re really only planning to renovate it. And when you howl that your new coworker wears too much perfume, we’ll assume you’re just exaggerating and half the time you actually can’t even smell it. Yes, life in the Pit would be a bit different if we decided to discuss rant topics based on choosing to believe only half of what the OP says. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/56 "2005-05-27T17:31:14Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Yes, life in the Pit would be a bit different if we decided to discuss rant topics based on choosing to believe only half of what the OP says. But it’s so much easier! If **tdn** believes half the OP, and I believe the other half, then the entire OP gets believed and there’s not too much strain on either of us. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/57 "2005-05-27T17:31:14Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Hey, it’s better than being at the mercy of a sheep-like culture. 🙂 Hmmm. Well, which is more sheeplike, a friend pushing a cigarette on you saying “come on, try it, it’s really cool”. Or making up your OWN mind and taste and refusing it despite not being cool? That is exactly what happened to me when I was 15. All of my friends smoked. They wanted me to try it. I did. One drag. Even though in a lot of things I’m a sweet an malleable girl, this thing I said “That SUCKS (yes, sucks was said way back in the 70s, sorry genX you didn’t make it up :)), no thanks”. My friends kept after me “no come on, you have to practice and stuff…etc, etc”. So who is the non-conformist? The one who refuses to be talked into it? Or the one that caves? It’s not like you have to be “talked into” going the default of clean air. ---
**Author:** ![Fringe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b5a626/32.png) [@Fringe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fringe)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/58 "2005-05-27T17:35:09Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > Non conformists? Giggle, and yet you’re completely and utterly at the mercy of, and controlled by that tiny little white stick. Hmmmm I smoke. I would hardly say that I’m “completely and utterly at the mercy of” that tiny little white stick. Not everyone that enjoys smoking is a mindless slave to the practice. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/59 "2005-05-27T17:37:01Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > What most non-smokers don’t seem to get is that smokers tend to be non-conformists. It’s probably the reason so many of us started in the first place. Oh bullshit. Why would you start smoking in the first place if not to fit in? “Hmm…I’m bored. How shall I pass the time? I know! I’ll take up smoking!” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Fringe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b5a626/32.png) [@Fringe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fringe)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/60 "2005-05-27T17:41:23Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > Hmmm. Well, which is more sheeplike, a friend pushing a cigarette on you saying “come on, try it, it’s really cool”. Or making up your OWN mind and taste and refusing it despite not being cool? Sorry for the double post, but **CanvasShoes** got in another before I finished posting that I’d like to respond to. I made up my own mind and taste when I decided to try smoking. It had nothing to do with being “cool”. Please do not assume that smokers are mindless drones with no personality. Our actions are not decided by the majority, or by cigarettes. Yes, there are many that are controlled by such things, but the same could be said about humans in general. I know you are mostly responding to the non-conformist remark by **tdn** , and I have a feeling you wouldn’t even phrase your points like this if not for the desire to provide an anti-thesis to **tdn**. My intention is to only offer an alternative point of view so that we aren’t all swept into such broad generalization. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655.md?page=4)