# Ahh, the aroma of ashtrays **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 26, 2005, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655 "2005-05-26T20:01:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/101 "2005-05-27T22:36:55Z")
> [@Fringe](#): > > I smoke. I would hardly say that I’m “completely and utterly at the mercy of” that tiny little white stick. Not everyone that enjoys smoking is a mindless slave to the practice. All those people in the cute little glass boxes at the airports seem to be. 😃 'Specially entertaining is the frantic way they leap to their feet the second the seatbelt lights go out and dash headlong down the jetway. Those smoking “rooms” are crammed full to the brim with madly puffing away people. Nearly every time I go to the grocery store, there’s someone or three taking a last frantic drag on a ciggie before going into the store to shop. Then lighting up as they’re leaving. The folks on the bus, get out their sticks and lighters and stand up waiting for three stops before theirs so as to get that head start on that all consuming need to smoke. Based on my observations, I’d say the desperately addicted outnumber the “smokes only for pleasure” by a huge number ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/102 "2005-05-27T22:55:56Z")
> [@Boldface Type](#): > > Well, there is evidence that prolonged exposure to second-hand smoke does increase the risk of death from some causes, so at least the ‘second hand smoke kills’ woowoo does have some basis in truth. It’s an interesting question as to how much second hand exposure represents a ‘significant’ increase in risk, though. This appears to be an assertion that any risk is too much. Well, there’s always risk. One of the risks is that, unbeknownst you both you and the smoker, the ground could be saturated with an accelerant, and if the smoker loses a cherry you could both go up in lethal flames. Sure, this risk is infinitesimal, but it’s a _risk_, goddammit! ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/103 "2005-05-27T23:05:18Z")
Hey **Ellis Dee** , why didn’t you bold the rest of that sentence? > [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > **Some** studies are getting tossed out because of methodological problems, so the data really doesn’t prove the point. ---
**Author:** ![Boldface\_Type](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5e925/32.png) [@Boldface\_Type](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boldface_Type)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/104 "2005-05-27T23:23:49Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > This appears to be an assertion that any risk is too much. By whom? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/105 "2005-05-27T23:42:52Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > And yet all the sanctimonious pricks in threads like these continue to piss and moan about how deadly it has been proven to be. Fighting ignorance indeed. > > The smell argument is the mosty ludicrous thing I’ve ever heard. I hate coffee. In addition to the extra bathroom breaks coffee drinkers take, the smell of brewing coffee makes me want to hurl. So I can demand that my office be coffee-free with just as much validity as the whiny bitches demanding it be smoke free, right? Let me preface this, by saying I agree with you here. I think I can add an even worse funk, and I bet many will agree. Even better, it is usually non and anti smokers who do it. How about the people who drench themselves with cheap ass perfume? Ever see what happens to someone with asthma or bronchitis when they are stuck in the office with such a person? They practically stop breathing. But, the sanctimonious nonsmoking prick doesn’t give a damn and gets all huffy when called on it. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/106 "2005-05-27T23:44:58Z")
> [@Dubious Weasle](#): > > Finally, I’m curious in regards to the study that stated that children whose parents neither smoke around them or in the house have higher levels of asthma. Frankly, I’m a little unsure how, if the kids are never exposed to smoke, their asthma can be laid at the feet of smoking. That claim sounds like bullshit to me also. I bet it’s more directly related to the worsening pollution, not any sort of smoking. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/107 "2005-05-28T00:08:11Z")
> [@Dubious Weasle](#): > > Finally, I’m curious in regards to the study that stated that children whose parents neither smoke around them or in the house have higher levels of asthma. Frankly, I’m a little unsure how, if the kids are never exposed to smoke, their asthma can be laid at the feet of smoking. > [@SteveG1](#): > > That claim sounds like bullshit to me also. I bet it’s more directly related to the worsening pollution, not any sort of smoking. Sorry guys, but decent scientific studies indicate quite strongly that kids who are exposed to cigarette smoke are more likely to develop asthma than their counterparts, and those kids whose parents continue to smoke have more attacks than their asthmatic counterparts whose parents give up smoking or never smoked. Women who smoke during pregnancy have children who have a higher rate of asthma even if the moms give up smoking at birth. > **[Early Life Risk Factors for Asthma at 10 Years of Age](https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/499495)** > > Heredity, early life atopy, plus early passive smoke exposure and recurrent infections are important influences for the occurrence of wheezing and asthma. QtM, MD ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/108 "2005-05-28T00:09:56Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > Hey **Ellis Dee** , why didn’t you bold the rest of that sentence? Probably for the same reason that you didn’t either. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/109 "2005-05-28T00:11:37Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > Sorry guys, but decent scientific studies indicate quite strongly that kids who are exposed to cigarette smoke are more likely to develop asthma than their counterparts, and those kids whose parents continue to smoke have more attacks than their asthmatic counterparts whose parents give up smoking or never smoked. I’m not going to say smoking doesn’t matter, but surely there must be more to it than _just_ smoke. Else why has the occurence of asthma been skyrocketing over the past two or three decades while smoking has been dropping? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/110 "2005-05-28T00:14:11Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > I’m not going to say smoking doesn’t matter, but surely there must be more to it than _just_ smoke. Else why has the occurence of asthma been skyrocketing over the past two or three decades while smoking has been dropping? Oh, it’s multifactorial all right, and we haven’t yet figured out all the ins and outs of the booming asthma epidemic. But one thing is clear: The segment of the population which is experiencing a significantly greater rise in asthma cases than the general population is that segment which is exposed to tobacco smoke, both pre and post-natally. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/111 "2005-05-28T00:16:53Z")
OK, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/112 "2005-05-28T00:17:09Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > Probably for the same reason that you didn’t either. Now that’s just stupid. Some studies have been invalidated due to false methodology. That doesn’t mean they’re all bunk. Seems to me you’re in too big a hurry to prove all the nonsmokers wrong. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/113 "2005-05-28T00:18:44Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > I’m not going to say smoking doesn’t matter, but surely there must be more to it than _just_ smoke. Else why has the occurence of asthma been skyrocketing over the past two or three decades while smoking has been dropping? That’s actually a pretty good question. Is it possible to pin it on smoking of parents before conception? A kind of acquired lung deficiency or something? Maybe pollution rates in general are increasing? As in, despite cars emitting fewer pollutants, there’s more cars around to emit. Could it be the ubiquity of antibiotic usage? More additives in food, or the prevelance (sp?) of genetically enhanced food crops? Clearly I’m no doctor, and these are just WAGs, but I’m genuinely curious and open to the possibility that it may or may not be smoking related. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/114 "2005-05-28T00:20:00Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > Now that’s just stupid. Some studies have been invalidated due to false methodology. That doesn’t mean they’re all bunk. Seems to me you’re in too big a hurry to prove all the nonsmokers wrong. Stupid? What was the reason you didn’t bold the entire sentence? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/115 "2005-05-28T00:23:02Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > Oh, it’s multifactorial all right, and we haven’t yet figured out all the ins and outs of the booming asthma epidemic. But one thing is clear: The segment of the population which is experiencing a significantly greater rise in asthma cases than the general population is that segment which is exposed to tobacco smoke, both pre and post-natally. This thread is moving too fast for me. Ignore my baseless musing a couple posts back, as this is a satisfactory answer for me. That segment of the population that is experiencing a significant rise in asthma cases due to exposure to tobacco, (surely not chewing tobacco, though, right?) what percentage (roughly) of the asthma population does it represent? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/116 "2005-05-28T00:28:23Z")
Perfume makes you sick [http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/05/24/perfume.lawsuit.ap/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/05/24/perfume.lawsuit.ap/index.html) > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Dubious Weasle > Finally, I’m curious in regards to the study that stated that children whose parents **neither smoke around them or in the house** have higher levels of asthma. Frankly, I’m a little unsure how, if the kids are never exposed to smoke, their asthma can be laid at the feet of smoking. The bolded part is the part I have serious trouble believing (unless someone was “fiddling” with the words). > [@](#): > > Posted by This Year’s Model > why has the occurence of asthma been skyrocketing over the past two or three decades while smoking has been dropping? > [@](#): > > Posted by Qadgop > we haven’t yet figured out all the ins and outs of the booming asthma epidemic But it is easier to blame it all on smokers, never mind all the stuff that motor vehicles, industry and power companies pump into the air. What about all the plastic things we are surrounding ourselves with? They outgas so badly, much of it is banned from the space program. That could be a big factor too, and our homes and offices are full of plastic. ---
**Author:** ![Maendosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ebca7d/32.png) [@Maendosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maendosa)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/117 "2005-05-28T00:36:26Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Uh, since I’m now an adult, it’s a non-issue. > Rebellious might be a better word. Or anti-authoritarian. > > Sheesh, I had no idea one little word could get picked on so much. This coming from the guy who presented us with furbabies and fleshbabies? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/118 "2005-05-28T00:37:19Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > But it is easier to blame it all on smokers, never mind all the stuff that motor vehicles, industry and power companies pump into the air. What about all the plastic things we are surrounding ourselves with? They outgas so badly, much of it is banned from the space program. That could be a big factor too, and our homes and offices are full of plastic. Well, we have evidence that tobacco smoke contributes significantly to the problem. Do other things? Probably. But we don’t have evidence as to all of the other ones yet. We do have evidence that exposure to tobacco smoke _alone_ as a fetus, infant, and child is **one** of the factors, and a significant one, in increasing one’s risk for asthma. Some kids who get asthma never had parents who smoked, or ever were exposed at home to second-hand smoke. But that doesn’t negate the evidence that shows a kid is more likely to get asthma if their parents smoked. ---
**Author:** ![Dubious\_Weasle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b782af/32.png) [@Dubious\_Weasle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dubious_Weasle)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/119 "2005-05-28T00:39:12Z")
[ > [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > It is well documented that kids who have asthma do worse if either of their parents smoke _ **even if the parents never smoke around the kids or in the house that the kids live in** _. And since between 5-12% of children have asthma, and since asthma fatalities have been rising in the last 20 years, that alone gives folks plenty of motivation to try to remove as much second-hand smoke from the environment as is possible. I’ll certainly buy into the idea that exposing kids to smoke very likely has health consequences with asthma among possible side-effects. There remains the question of course of exactly _how much_ smoke it takes to have a measurable effect and I imagine that’s something studies will be dueling over for years to come. Suffice it so say, regardless of scale I have no problem believing that exposure to smoke can causes negative effects. Now… with that caveat out there, my earlier comment was in reference to the quoted section above [bolding yours I believe]. Now, I notice that I misread the statement originally as saying kids were more likely to get asthma vs kids with asthma have problems. That said, if the parents “never smoke around the kid or in the house that the kids live in” how exactly can this be laid at the feet of second-hand smoke? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/120 "2005-05-28T00:46:09Z")
> [@Dubious Weasle](#): > > if the parents “never smoke around the kid or in the house that the kids live in” how exactly can this be laid at the feet of second-hand smoke? I can’t find the study at the moment so I can’t quite it’s precise methodology, but it compared cases of asthma in kids, normalized them for severity, and then looked for factors like whether or not either parent smoked, and if they smoked, did they smoke in the house or not. The data showed, not surprisingly, that kids whose parents didn’t smoke had fewer asthma exacerbations. But kids whose parents smoked, but not in the house, had a significantly higher rate of exacerbations than kids of nonsmoking parents. Those kids whose parents smoked around them had the highest rate of asthma exacerbations. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655.md?page=7)