# Ahh, the aroma of ashtrays **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 26, 2005, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655 "2005-05-26T20:01:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/121 "2005-05-28T00:49:21Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > Well, we have evidence that tobacco smoke contributes significantly to the problem. … We do have evidence that exposure to tobacco smoke _alone_ as a fetus, infant, and child is **one** of the factors, and a significant one, in increasing one’s risk for asthma. > > Some kids who get asthma never had parents who smoked, or ever were exposed at home to second-hand smoke. But that doesn’t negate the evidence that shows a kid is more likely to get asthma if their parents smoked. I concede your point, that smoking is a factor. I get “interested” when SOME people act as if it is the only factor, demand “immediate action” or “government action” and toss deliberate insults. That’s the bullshit part. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/122 "2005-05-28T01:00:56Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > I can’t find the study at the moment so I can’t quite it’s precise methodology, but it compared cases of asthma in kids, normalized them for severity, and then looked for factors like whether or not either parent smoked, and if they smoked, did they smoke in the house or not. > > The data showed, not surprisingly, that kids whose parents didn’t smoke had fewer asthma exacerbations. But kids whose parents smoked, but not in the house, had a significantly higher rate of exacerbations than kids of nonsmoking parents. Those kids whose parents smoked around them had the highest rate of asthma exacerbations. Did the study differentiate between smoking mothers who quit during pregnancy and those who didn’t? Is nicotine a substance that can cross the placenta to the fetus? I can see an influence in utero that would explain exacerbation of asthma in children of smokers even when the parents didn’t smoke in the presence of the children. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/123 "2005-05-28T04:58:57Z")
[The Canadian Government’s position on second-hand smoke.](http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hecs-sesc/tobacco/facts/blueribbon/secondHand.html). [Their testing methods used to determine the toxins in tobacco and second-hand smoke.](http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hecs-sesc/tobacco/legislation/index_testmethods.html) I can believe that a [Group A carcinogen](http://dccps.nci.nih.gov/TCRB/I_mind_if_you_smoke/other.html) like tobacco smoke that cause any [number of cancers](http://quitsmoking.about.com/od/tobaccostatistics/a/cancerstats.htm) - > [@](#): > > When people think of cancers caused by smoking, the first one that comes to mind is always lung cancer. Most cases of lung cancer death, close to 90% in men, and 80% in women are caused by cigarette smoking. There are several other forms of cancer attributed to smoking as well, and they include cancer of the oral cavity, pharynx, larynx, esophagus, bladder, stomach, cervix, kidney and pancreas, and acute myeloid leukemia. The list of additives allowed in the manufacture of cigarettes consists of 599 possible ingredients. When burned, cigarette smoke contains over 4000 chemicals, with over 40 of them being known carcinogens. could affect a fetus _in utero_. Heck, I can believe that it could affect your gametes _before_ you conceive or get someone pregnant. Smokers, you can believe whatever you like, you can rationalize your addiction any way you like, but don’t try to tell us that the facts are not what they are. Tobacco smoke and second-hand tobacco smoke are toxins. Not “might be.” Not “seem to be.” They _are_. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/124 "2005-05-28T05:11:15Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > Heck, I can believe that it could affect your gametes _before_ you conceive or get someone pregnant. I probably could too. > [@](#): > > Smokers, you can believe whatever you like, you can rationalize your addiction any way you like, but don’t try to tell us that the facts are not what they are. Tobacco smoke and second-hand tobacco smoke are toxins. Not “might be.” Not “seem to be.” They _are_. Same with car exhaust. Let’s ban cars! ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/125 "2005-05-28T05:44:53Z")
There is at least one benefit to the fact that the smell of tobacco lingers so: it makes it easier to avoid hiring them. And that’s not an empty joke. A friend of mine works in personnel in a branch of a very large corporation. The “unofficial” word from on high has come down to give non-smokers preference in hiring decisions. The rationale being, according to her, that smokers have more sick days/medical costs. BTW, she’s not supposed to _ask_ the applicants if they smoke, and she’s not to even hint that that plays a role in their not being hired. It’s all, “Thank you for coming in. I have more interviews scheduled, but we’ll let you know.” Why, I’m not sure. It’s not like smokers are a protected class. Or, maybe some smoker could claim tobacco addiction as a handicap that should be accomodated? Hmmm. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/126 "2005-05-28T05:52:29Z")
**Starvingbutstrong** , my statistics teacher has actually worked with the federal government on this. Apparently, it’s ok not to hire someone because they smoke, if you’ve done a study that proves smokers take significantly more sick days. Apparently it’s not hard to prove. ---
**Author:** ![infamousmom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d6d6ee/32.png) [@infamousmom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/infamousmom)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/127 "2005-05-28T06:27:56Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > pissant attitudes like yours make me want to rip it off and go buy a pack of straight Camels. Yeah baby. You’re just looking for any old excuse to light up again, aren’t you? Damn, those nonsmokers are so inconsiderate. I’ll show those mofos who’s boss, gimme them Camels and stand back. Guess you wasted all that money you spent on the patches, huh. Cant quit, can ya, gotta blame it on someone else, though. Ooo, the nerve of those Dopers, taunting you till you can’t take it any more without your flaming pacifier. That’s the ticket. ---
**Author:** ![infamousmom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d6d6ee/32.png) [@infamousmom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/infamousmom)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/128 "2005-05-28T06:33:01Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > What most non-smokers don’t seem to get is that smokers tend to be non-conformists. It’s probably the reason so many of us started in the first place. I call bullshit. Smokers aren’t nonconformists. If they were nonconformists, tobacco advertising and peer pressure would go nowhere with them. Sucking on cigs to be a “rebel” is about as nonconformist as wearing pants ten sizes too big because all the really cool gangstas do it. The reason you started in the first place is because you’re a jerk who couldn’t think of any better way to stand out from the crowd. ---
**Author:** ![infamousmom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d6d6ee/32.png) [@infamousmom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/infamousmom)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/129 "2005-05-28T06:37:30Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > If it weren’t for these rectal haberdashers I may have quit years ago. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Hee heee hee… _wiping eyes_ _snif_ Whoo baby, that’s a GOOD one. Damn, it’s just completely out of your hands! It’s their fault you’re a stinking addict, every last one of 'em, and so there, so there, so there! Ever think of signing up for comedy night at the local improv? The more reasons like this you could come up with, pretty soon the whole audience would be falling on the floor. …either that, or your breath would knock 'em out of their chairs at 20 paces. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/130 "2005-05-28T06:56:00Z")
> [@infamousmom](#): > > I call bullshit. Smokers aren’t nonconformists. If they were nonconformists, tobacco advertising and peer pressure would go nowhere with them. Sucking on cigs to be a “rebel” is about as nonconformist as wearing pants ten sizes too big because all the really cool gangstas do it. > > The reason you started in the first place is because you’re a jerk who couldn’t think of any better way to stand out from the crowd. Have never called myself a nonconformist for smoking or anything else but I didn’t start smoking to “stand out from the crowd”, shit not smoking would have worked better if that is what I was after. Very maturely (well I was 17) I started smoking to piss off my father. Same stupid addiction, different reason 😃 As to stinky people…well it ain’t all smokers but stinky breath/armpit/over-perfumed etc people don’t add so much to the govts tax coffers. I’m sure EVERYONE agrees smoking doesn’t smell pretty, including smokers, but it is a perfectly legal habit. Until any govt anywhere has the guts to make it illegal there will be plenty of us addicts around. Shit in NZ it is illegal for children to buy certain brands of glue (because it is sniffed…with bad results) but something that is soooooooooo bad to everyone (including those offended by the smell :rolleyes: ) is perfectly legal cause it brings in millions in tax dollars. Swings and roundabouts people. My smoking may pay for your diabetes treatment. I just hope they don’t make bread illegal to protect the gluten free. ---
**Author:** ![Ink\_a\_dink\_a\_dink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ec9cab/32.png) [@Ink\_a\_dink\_a\_dink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ink_a_dink_a_dink)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/131 "2005-05-28T07:02:14Z")
Hey. Ex smoker here. Ex corporate drone, as well. Had one job where I could smoke in the bathroom. Well, nothing like two birds with one stone. And before you bitch, I had to take the portable phone with me INTO the bathroom so if it rang, I could race out and answer it without the echo of BR tiles. I considered it due compensation that I could sit and smoke while doing my thing. In another corporate session, I actually held meetings with other smokers in the smoking lounge. Four of us, planning the bridge, how we would advance training, how I could do global training on one dial-in meeting the topics that needed to be addressed, what else was needed to be discussed, etc. Future plans for the project, what and how I would develop training materials (since I’d only had the position for oh, a MONTH), etc. More than once, I would meet with other co-workers from other departments and get information that was vital to work my department was doing, and had we not had those bits of info, we could have spend worthless hours advancing on a project that was capriciously tanked without letting the Proposal Team aware and thereby saving us research hours, developmental hours, compilation hours, supplemental data hours, visial accompanyment hours, production hours… I seemed to find it was in my and my department’s best interest that I keep up my little habit. It saved a few people’s collective asses more than once, I helped another gentleman transition into a DREAM position for him after he’d nominated me for a TOP position they refused to give me because I hadn’t been there a full year yet, although I had done better staffing changes and adaptations than ANYONE else there. I also came in an hour early. I worked through my lunches. I worked late. EVERY DAY. If I smelled like smoke, I could give a crap. Does it make me less intelligent or the information I offer or produce less professional? Bullshit it does. Now I work at home. I don’t smoke. I ache for it, I yearn for it. I want ot sit by my omputer with an ashtray beside me. I don’t. I hate that you ANTI-smokers have made it such an anathema for me to enjoy something LEGAL. If you hate it that much, join a protest bandwagon. And leave me alone. I have health problems anyway (not related), and I cant do something that I enjoy, that calms me, that helps me collect my thoughts rationally before digging in. If BF would give up on this one issue (He absolutely will NOT) it would be the perfect relationship. So I suffer, and I get irritated and he thinks it’s ridiculous since he quit thirty years ago stone cold. Um…upped the addictive properties much?? Rambling. Fuck it. Don’t do my work. Do the work I come back with the new adjustments I found out about while all the high level execs were smoking in there with me. I get my work done. I get half of yours done. Fucko off. GAD, now I REALLY want a smoke. Inky ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/132 "2005-05-28T07:34:50Z")
I don’t go on when I smell smoke on people’s clothing. They smoke, they stink themselves up – it’s like folks wearing cheap-and-nasty perfume, or forgetting to scrub the armpits and crotch before they toddled out for th’ day. These things happen. I _do_ go on and mutter when I smell the actual _smoke_ – and I can’t get away from it (work situation, bus stop on a rainy day, that kind of thing). But that’s a whole 'nother argument. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/133 "2005-05-28T08:55:55Z")
> [@Ice Wolf](#): > > I don’t go on when I smell smoke on people’s clothing. They smoke, they stink themselves up – it’s like folks wearing cheap-and-nasty perfume, or forgetting to scrub the armpits and crotch before they toddled out for th’ day. These things happen. Fair enough :). Some of us stink. I _do_ go on and mutter when I smell the actual _smoke_ – and I can’t get away from it (work situation, bus stop on a rainy day, that kind of thing). But that’s a whole 'nother argument. [/QUOTE] Where on Earth (NZ) do you work that lets someone smoke at work? As far as I know it is illegal in every workplace. I get my 3 smokes per work day, morning tea, lunch and afternoon tea. I may come back stinky but I am not smoking near anyone (unless you happen to visit me in my car). As far as bus stops you have my sympathy, but until it is illegal (which it probably should be but never will be because of the tax dollars) you may just have to put up with it. Hey we all have to put up with things we find unpleasant. Just for the record though, some of us smoking types do our best to be considerate to others. Side note… **Ice** have you seen the giant haka man on the weensy island to the left of the harbour bridge (going North…we always called it Rat Island, I don’t know it’s actual name) in honour of the Lions touring? I reckon it is very groovy. Go see it if you haven’t. ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/134 "2005-05-28T11:03:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Where on Earth (NZ) do you work that lets someone smoke at work? As far as I know it is illegal in every workplace. Yes, it’s illegal. And yes, they smoke in my workplace. T’is okay, 'cause in about a months time, I’m outta there. ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/135 "2005-05-28T11:06:21Z")
> [@](#): > > As far as bus stops you have my sympathy, but until it is illegal (which it probably should be but never will be because of the tax dollars) you may just have to put up with it. Just an addition – yeah, I have to put up with breathing in folk’s stinking carcinogens 'cause _they_ don’t want to get wet while they’re blowing the fumes all over the place. Consideration is a good thing. There are a lot of other nuisances in life, though. I find glares are sometimes good. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/136 "2005-05-28T11:24:34Z")
\*\*IceB/] you either had a bad day or this is a real hot button issue for you. Whichever it is, I AM sorry. To all smoker-haters…I am sorry it annoys you. Try paying for it and living with the fact that you are too bloody weak to give it up. Now that is annoying! Some of us really are just that pathetic BUT some of us try not to annoy the rest of you. ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/137 "2005-05-28T11:30:32Z")
Nah, mate. As you mentioned, it’s down to consideration. I just happen to think that breathing in someone else’s smoke adds to my chances of cancer and/or inability to breathe (I’m naturally bronchial). As long as it’s some place where I can move away from the fumes (and not get soaked in the rain just ‘cause I like th’ breathing bit) – smokers can go on doin’ what they do. I have friends who are smokers and _are_ very considerate. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/138 "2005-05-28T11:40:47Z")
Hey, we all have hot button issues. Your one is smoking, with good reason it seems :). Given my time back I wouldn’t be a smoker. I just don’t have the thimble full of will power it needs to quit. It is up to smokers to be considerate, not up to non-smokers to avoid them. There is only one person I deliberately annoy with my smoking, but he his a whinger and anything and everything annoys him…I just like to put the boot in occasionaly (hello Uncle Donald :D). (Check out the Haka man…I hate rugby but he looks cool on the island) ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/139 "2005-05-28T11:50:42Z")
> [@infamousmom](#): > > You’re just looking for any old excuse to light up again, aren’t you? Pretty much. But at least I’m still smoke-free this morning. You’re still an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2005, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655/140 "2005-05-28T11:58:37Z")
> [@calm kiwi](#): > > (Check out the Haka man…I hate rugby but he looks cool on the island) Hope he’s still there if I do get a chance to cross th’ bridge again. We should meet up sometime, you and me. I promise not to bitch if you light up. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahh-the-aroma-of-ashtrays/305655.md?page=8)