# Ahmadinejad a hostage taker? Does it matter? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 30, 2005, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-a-hostage-taker-does-it-matter/310548 "2005-06-30T17:24:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2005, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-a-hostage-taker-does-it-matter/310548/21 "2005-07-01T12:31:55Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I agree. Even if he wasn’t one of the hostage-takers, he was definitely part of the group they came from. There could be a lot of them in power in Iran now; I don’t know. It may just be that their generation has, inevitably, reached that age. > > Other than that, yeah, what **Jonathan Chance** said. It’s salt in old wounds, but we have no cards to play against Iran now. There are no diplomatic or economic ties to cut and it’s pretty impossible to threaten them with anything. Actually, according to one of NPR’s many amazingly unbiased reports, most of the hostage takers who attained political power were subsequently attacked by the Iranian mullahs as opportunists and removed from power. Very tidy people, those mullahs. Also, Ahmadinejad is safe so long as his name is so lengthy and difficult to spell. He doesn’t fit well in a sound bite, therefore he’s politically untouchable. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/47e85d/32.png) [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Lance_Murdoch)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2005, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-a-hostage-taker-does-it-matter/310548/22 "2005-07-01T12:40:54Z")
It ain’t him. Look at [this](http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/098882.php) site. Check out the ears on the top two pictures. They are not the same person. Ears never lie. Of course, he could have been involved in the hostage taking in some other way, but he is not the man in the photos. Couple things though. One: a lot of the people who were hostage takers are on the outs with the Islamic regime today. Several of them backed the “reformers” like Khatami. A few have been sent to jail. One tried to run for president years back, but was banned from the ballot for not supporting the revolution enough. Two: The Iranian presidency is of little consequence anyway. Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khaminei holds unchallenged power in Iran. The presidency has been weakened to a figurehead position. Ahmadinejad was installed as president (no way did he win anything close to the 62% of the vote he supposedly got) so Khaminei would not have to listen to even a weak voice of dissent such as what the milquetoast Khatami occasionally muttered. Iran’s policies will not change as a result of the change in presidents. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2005, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-a-hostage-taker-does-it-matter/310548/23 "2005-07-01T13:35:52Z")
> [@Captain Lance Murdoch](#): > > Ears never lie. I don’t see a good view of the same parts of both guy’s ears. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![zuma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9c0ed/32.png) [@zuma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zuma)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2005, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-a-hostage-taker-does-it-matter/310548/24 "2005-07-01T13:48:46Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Actually Fidel Castro has visited the US many times since he took power. The UN HQ is in New York City. If Ahmadinejad decided he wanted to speak at the UN himself instead of the Iranian ambassador the US would have to let him in. He could be restriced to Manhattan though. I don’t buy that. Assuming he was one of the Iranian hostage-takers, which of course means he attacked the US on US property, he would not be let in. It’s not comparable to Castro, who never invaded US territory or directly harmed US citizens on their own territory. It remains to be seen if he is one of these criminals, though. If he is, things will get interesting, no doubt. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2005, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-a-hostage-taker-does-it-matter/310548/25 "2005-07-01T14:08:08Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > An Embassy is (under the Vienna Convention, I think) the territory of the country what does own it. . Actually, no, it isn’t, though it benefits from many protections. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2005, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-a-hostage-taker-does-it-matter/310548/26 "2005-07-01T15:06:58Z")
Please correct me. I thought I had this stuff down cold, but am always eager to learn more. (That might sound snitty. I mean it sincerely.) ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2005, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-a-hostage-taker-does-it-matter/310548/27 "2005-07-01T15:25:09Z")
> [@](#): > > Why is Bush mystified? Does the CIA not have a file on Mr. Ahmadinejad, or those involved in the Embassy affair? Why not? Isn’t that part of their JOB? It boggles the mind that the US government is clueless as to the former mayor of Tehran’s identity. I suspect they do know. They just don’t want to say, “Yes, It’s him.” On the off-chance it is. And they may not have gotten the report in yet. > [@](#): > > What do you propose we do with this guy and the country he has been elected to lead, apparently freely and popularly elected. Heh. I wouldn’t be so sure about that ‘Freely and Popularly’ thing. > [@](#): > > Don’t heads of state have that[diplomatic immunity], pretty much automatically? He wouldn’t come here without it. It’s not automatic, and we could theoretically revoke the right at any time. In practice, the political consequences for it are huge. We only do that if someone did something _while on our soil_ so bad that we can look at his home nation and they quietly drop any objections. > [@](#): > > Ahmadinejad decided he wanted to speak at the UN himself instead of the Iranian ambassador the US would have to let him in. Not true. But we would _probably_ let him do so because it suits our larger political goals. ---
**Author:** ![Stonebow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Stonebow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stonebow)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2005, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-a-hostage-taker-does-it-matter/310548/28 "2005-07-01T15:25:35Z")
Silly question- has there been a formal request for that information by our governement? Has the Iranian government issued any sort of denial/ admission? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2005, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-a-hostage-taker-does-it-matter/310548/29 "2005-07-01T15:36:27Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Why is Bush mystified? Does the CIA not have a file on Mr. Ahmadinejad, or those involved in the Embassy affair? Why not? Isn’t that part of their JOB? It boggles the mind that the US government is clueless as to the former mayor of Tehran’s identity. Gee, you sound just like EVERYBODY who wondered how the CIA could’ve missed how numerous and powerful the Iranian revolutionaries were. “No, Mr President, the Shah has nothing to worry about. Those protestors are just a few malcontents. Everybody else in Iran loves the Shah to pieces.” The CIA should just admit they don’t have a clue how to do their job, fold their tents, and slink off into the night. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/47e85d/32.png) [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Lance_Murdoch)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2005, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-a-hostage-taker-does-it-matter/310548/30 "2005-07-01T18:47:32Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I don’t see a good view of the same parts of both guy’s ears. > 🙂 I’ll admit the veiw isn’t the best, but the hostage guy’s ears look shorter and rounder to me. Additionally, although you can’t tell from the site I linked to, Hostage guy looks considerably taller than Ahmadinejad. Look at pics where they are standing next to other people. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2005, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-a-hostage-taker-does-it-matter/310548/31 "2005-07-01T22:44:44Z")
Wait a second. Iraq just recently elected (more or less) a Prime Minister with close ties to some Iranian theocrats, who may himself have been a [terrorist](http://www.perspicacityonline.com/Articles/2005/03/Iraq050313.htm) in the past: > [@](#): > > The fact that one of the leading contenders to become prime minister of Iraq’s interim government, Ibrahim Jafari, head of the Dawa Party, may have a terrorist past does not concern Rice. She said that he is an elected official who seems to want a better future for Iraq and that the United States would work very well with him. […] > > Regardless of Jafari’s past, Rice said, what is most important is that he was elected to the assembly by the Iraqi people. If Ahmadinejad’s possible terrorist past is such a matter of concern, why isn’t anybody asking for similar research and clarification on Jafari’s? Please tell me we’re not still giving foreign leaders a pass on being a son-of-a-bitch as long as “he’s _our_ son-of-a-bitch”. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2005, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-a-hostage-taker-does-it-matter/310548/32 "2005-07-01T22:49:26Z")
> [@Stonebow](#): > > Silly question- has there been a formal request for that information by our governement? Has the Iranian government issued any sort of denial/ admission? At least a few Iranian ministers, and Ahmadinejad himself, have denied it. Don’t know if that’s anything formal. ---
**Author:** ![zuma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9c0ed/32.png) [@zuma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zuma)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-a-hostage-taker-does-it-matter/310548/33 "2005-07-02T15:31:18Z")
Now the [Austrians are after this guy.](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8442940/) There seems to be a whole lot of stink piling up regarding the guy. If these allegations are true, he should immediately be taken out. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-a-hostage-taker-does-it-matter/310548/34 "2005-07-02T15:52:51Z")
We can always do what we would’ve done in the good ol’ days. Give Israel help to take him out, then go on the news and say “Bad Isreal! Bad! We are very disappointed in you.”[sub] “here’s another fighter”[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-a-hostage-taker-does-it-matter/310548/35 "2005-07-02T15:54:10Z")
> [@zuma](#): > > Now the [Austrians are after this guy.](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8442940/) There seems to be a whole lot of stink piling up regarding the guy. > > If these allegations are true, he should immediately be taken out. What exactly are you suggesting? An assassination, or a black ops entry and extrajudicial kidnapping of the president of a country? ---
**Author:** ![zuma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9c0ed/32.png) [@zuma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zuma)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-a-hostage-taker-does-it-matter/310548/36 "2005-07-02T16:26:41Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > What exactly are you suggesting? An assassination, or a black ops entry and extrajudicial kidnapping of the president of a country? While it remains to be seen whether he was culpable in the Embassy attack or the murder of the Kurds in Vienna, if in fact he was part of these acts, then yes, I am suggesting an assassination of a murderer. Again, there is a lot of speculation, so I’m only saying IF this guy that the US and Austria are after is in fact guilty, then yeah, assassinate him. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-a-hostage-taker-does-it-matter/310548/37 "2005-07-02T20:09:46Z")
> [@zuma](#): > > While it remains to be seen whether he was culpable in the Embassy attack or the murder of the Kurds in Vienna, if in fact he was part of these acts, then yes, I am suggesting an assassination of a murderer. You’re advocating not only summary execution without trial, but an act of war. And on top of that, the CIA swore that it was out of the assassination game a long time ago. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-a-hostage-taker-does-it-matter/310548/38 "2005-07-02T20:47:44Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > the CIA swore that it was out of the assassination game a long time ago. A crappy Link, I know, but didn’t Bush reinstate those by presidential order ? > [@](#): > > Oct 2001 > President Bush has given the CIA an explicit go-ahead to carry out covert missions to assassinate Osama bin Laden and his supporters around the world, effectively lifting a 25-year ban on such activities. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-a-hostage-taker-does-it-matter/310548/39 "2005-07-02T21:04:22Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > the CIA swore that it was out of the assassination game a long time ago. I swore to Mama Plant that I’d stop stealing cookies when I was four. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2005, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-a-hostage-taker-does-it-matter/310548/40 "2005-07-02T21:07:20Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > A crappy Link, I know, but didn’t Bush reinstate those by presidential order ? I’m sorry, I misspoke. Assassinations of _heads of state_. Bin Laden is not a head of state and a wanted criminal, which is rather different. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-a-hostage-taker-does-it-matter/310548.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-a-hostage-taker-does-it-matter/310548.md?page=3)