# Ahmadinejad gone bonkers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 30, 2005, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-gone-bonkers/333298 "2005-11-30T00:08:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-gone-bonkers/333298/1 "2005-11-30T00:08:11Z")
Iranian president thinks himself divinely inspired to bring about the reappearance of the 12th Imam - feels a holy aura surrounding him. So has Mahmud wipe-israel-off-the-map Ahmadinejad president of Iran and future nuclear weapon wielder, finally completely lost his marbles? And is that a man the world is able to conduct serious negotiations with regarding the nuclear build up? And what the heck happened to the supposedly secular Iranian population sick with the mullahs, everybody is talking about? Perhaps they weren’t so sick with mullahs as all that, or will Ahmadinejads iron islamic rule just hasten the collapse of the Iranian Islamic Democracy? [PRESIDENT SEES LIGHT SURROUNDING HIM"](http://www.iran-press-service.com/ips/articles-2005/november-2005/ahmadi_revelations_291105.shtml) The Mahdi huh. God help us, I hope no rouge Bene Gesserit has taught them Iranians the weirding ways! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-gone-bonkers/333298/2 "2005-11-30T00:57:05Z")
My WAG: I’ll be charitable, and assume this statement was made purely for domestic consumption, and, at that, served up specifically for the Iranian equivalent of our “family values” crowd. Because any other interpretation would be too horrible to contemplate. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Who](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Doctor\_Who](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Who)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-gone-bonkers/333298/3 "2005-11-30T01:19:50Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > The Mahdi huh. God help us, I hope no rouge Bene Gesserit has taught them Iranians the weirding ways! By the way, I hope no blue Bene Gesserit has taught them either! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-gone-bonkers/333298/4 "2005-11-30T01:52:28Z")
> [@PeterWiggen](#): > > By the way, I hope no blue Bene Gesserit has taught them either! Clearly he meant: no Bene Gesserit with rouge on her cheeks… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-gone-bonkers/333298/5 "2005-11-30T02:32:20Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > My WAG: I’ll be charitable, and assume this statement was made purely for domestic consumption, and, at that, served up specifically for the Iranian equivalent of our “family values” crowd. > > Because any other interpretation would be too horrible to contemplate. I second this guess. I talked w/ an Iranian fellow who led me to believe that it’s not uncommon for political proclamations to have an implied religious sanction. He also said that references to receiving wisdom from the Hidden Imam are also not unheard of when it comes to these sorts of proclamations. Now, I met him at a rally for the Sazeman-e Mojahedin-e Khalq-e Iran, ( I mean the PMOI 😉 ) so he’s not an unbiased source of info. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-gone-bonkers/333298/6 "2005-11-30T04:29:12Z")
> [@](#): > > And what the heck happened to the supposedly secular Iranian population sick with the mullahs, everybody is talking about? Perhaps they weren’t so sick with mullahs as all that… The secular (or more secular) political parties in Iran made steady gains in the parliament for fifteen years. Those gains were wiped out in the last year when the mullahs declared that most of the secular parties were ineligible to provide candidates for elections. While the ruling theocrats are genuinely scary people, I do not think it is valid to draw conclusions regarding the will of the majority of Iranians based on the last election. In the interest of avoiding a separate _post hoc ergo propter hoc_ fallacy, I will simply note that the timing of the theocrats’ action was _interesting_. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-gone-bonkers/333298/7 "2005-11-30T04:55:09Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > I second this guess. > I talked w/ an Iranian fellow who led me to believe that it’s not uncommon for political proclamations to have an implied religious sanction. He also said that references to receiving wisdom from the Hidden Imam are also not unheard of when it comes to these sorts of proclamations. > > Now, I met him at a rally for the Sazeman-e Mojahedin-e Khalq-e Iran, ( I mean the PMOI 😉 ) so he’s not an unbiased source of info. Assuming that’s true then there’s no reason to worry about his followers acting on the rhetoric and doing some random act of violence. I get all warm and fuzzy every time I hear about the Iranian Cabinet ending their deliberations with chants of “death to America”. No disconnect there. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-gone-bonkers/333298/8 "2005-11-30T11:36:58Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Assuming that’s true then there’s no reason to worry about his followers acting on the rhetoric and doing some random act of violence. No more than before. Consider that GWB has had several God-momemnts and believes that God directed him to becom PotUSA. Yet to most of us, this merely cause for eye-rolling. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-gone-bonkers/333298/9 "2005-11-30T19:28:49Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > Consider that GWB has had several God-momemnts and believes that God directed him to becom PotUSA. Now, now! That’s not a fair comparison! The difference is . . . the difference is . . . awww, **fuck!** ☹ [reaches for liquor bottle] ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-gone-bonkers/333298/10 "2005-11-30T19:46:22Z")
Lack of sarcasm/wit in a logical response may be somewhat disappointing to the reader, but nevertheless… There is a significant difference between claiming that God is behind all events, including Bush’s election as president, and claiming that one is the special “chosen insrument” of God, and using that, and that alone, to justify future actions. In one, God is given thanks for what has already passed; in the other, man essentially “forces” God, or the idea of God, to sanction any future actions taken. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-gone-bonkers/333298/11 "2005-11-30T19:58:54Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > There is a significant difference between claiming that God is behind all events, including Bush’s election as president, and claiming that one is the special “chosen insrument” of God, and using that, and that alone, to justify future actions. In one, God is given thanks for what has already passed; in the other, man essentially “forces” God, or the idea of God, to sanction any future actions taken. :dubious: In logical/conceptual terms, one could find a distinction between the two. In **practical** terms, there is none whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-gone-bonkers/333298/12 "2005-11-30T20:36:03Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > So has Mahmud wipe-israel-off-the-map Ahmadinejad president of Iran and future nuclear weapon wielder, finally completely lost his marbles? Doubtful. Standard internal Iranian politics from the right wing. > [@](#): > > And is that a man the world is able to conduct serious negotiations with regarding the nuclear build up? If Ahmadinejad had lots of power and was the person the world is actually negotiating with, I might say no. But he’s not. He can’t even get his ministers to be approved by Parliament and the mullahs have been the ones picking which emissaries go where to negotiate what. > [@](#): > > And what the heck happened to the supposedly secular Iranian population sick with the mullahs, everybody is talking about? Perhaps they weren’t so sick with mullahs as all that, or will Ahmadinejads iron islamic rule just hasten the collapse of the Iranian Islamic Democracy? Well, they didn’t have much choice after the conservatives hamstrung the more liberal parties when they were in power, then declaring most of them ineligible to run for Parliament in the last election. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-gone-bonkers/333298/13 "2005-11-30T20:41:29Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > There is a significant difference between claiming that God is behind all events, including Bush’s election as president, and claiming that one is the special “chosen insrument” of God, and using that, and that alone, to justify future actions. In one, God is given thanks for what has already passed; in the other, man essentially “forces” God, or the idea of God, to sanction any future actions taken. IIRC, GWB said he “called.” It would seem that this different from merely giving thanks. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-gone-bonkers/333298/14 "2005-11-30T20:42:34Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > Well, they didn’t have much choice after the conservatives hamstrung the more liberal parties when they were in power, then declaring most of them ineligible to run for Parliament in the last election. Perhaps they didn’t have time for gerrymandering. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-gone-bonkers/333298/15 "2005-11-30T21:53:22Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > Perhaps they didn’t have time for gerrymandering. Gerrymandering isn’t quite as effective as just simply barring your opponents from running. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-gone-bonkers/333298/16 "2005-11-30T22:40:33Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > No more than before. > Consider that GWB has had several God-momemnts and believes that God directed him to becom PotUSA. Yet to most of us, this merely cause for eye-rolling. Uh huh. You’re comparing the President of the United States to the political leaders of Iran. If that’s the perspective you want to go with then I’ll leave you to your thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-gone-bonkers/333298/17 "2005-11-30T23:10:52Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Uh huh. You’re comparing the President of the United States to the political leaders of Iran. Why not? Both are devout followers of their respective religions. Both believe that religion should be entwined with the governance of their respective nations. Of course, only Bush claims to have been called by God to be president _before_ he ran for office and only Bush has started a war against another country that was not even threatening his country, claiming that he consulted God, first, so I guess the comparison is unfair to the mullahs. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-gone-bonkers/333298/18 "2005-11-30T23:50:13Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Uh huh. You’re comparing the President of the United States to the political leaders of Iran. > > If that’s the perspective you want to go with then I’ll leave you to your thoughts. Well, if we were in a debate forum, you could debate. You could offer reasons as to why one leader’s claims of “divine inspiration” is so markedly different than the others. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-gone-bonkers/333298/19 "2005-12-01T15:34:02Z")
> [@](#): > > IIRC, GWB said he “called.” It would seem that this different from merely giving thanks. Note that in Christianity everyone is called by God to do something. Which is why anyone saying God called him or her to be/do something is not particularly unusual or fear-worthy. Even secular Americans sometimes refer to a job or hobby “calling;” same thing. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-gone-bonkers/333298/20 "2005-12-01T15:53:44Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > Note that in Christianity everyone is called by God to do something. Which is why anyone saying God called him or her to be/do something is not particularly unusual or fear-worthy. Even secular Americans sometimes refer to a job or hobby “calling;” same thing. > [@](#): > > To be a thief is my vocation, lad! 'Tis no sin for a man to labour at his vocation! – Falstaff, _Henry IV, Part 1_ [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahmadinejad-gone-bonkers/333298.md?page=2)