# "Ahoy! You there!" Or, race relations and semiotics. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 30, 2012, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahoy-you-there-or-race-relations-and-semiotics/620391 "2012-04-30T05:24:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![brujaja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@brujaja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brujaja)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahoy-you-there-or-race-relations-and-semiotics/620391/1 "2012-04-30T05:24:15Z")
My longtime friend’s boyfriend, William, is also a close friend of mine. We talk about everything under the sun, because we are both philosophical and introspective in nature. The other night, William (who is black) told me that, at least around here, it is no longer considered cool for anyone, black or white, to address a black man with whom they are not acquainted as “brother.” Not offensive, mind you; just not cool. For a black person to say this, he says, is considered weak. (over-conciliatory.) For a white person it’s goofy. (the implication being somewhere between over-familiar, hypocritical, and misappropriating another’s culture.) I guess there is also a “fogey” aspect. While I expect that this, like much of cultural drift, is driven largely by youth, and that the philosophical implications of stuff is likely the last thing on their minds (I know it was on mine, back then) – I think a lot about stuff like this, myself. I’m pretty sure this kind of thing falls under the general heading of “semiotics.” Think about the different ways we have commonly hailed a (male) stranger over time: goodman, fellow, bub, Jack, Daddy-O, dude, Sir, Mister, brother. What does it mean when a greeting emphasizing kinship falls out of fashion? Or, if it doesn’t “mean” anything exactly, do you think that these kinds of things over time affect and shape our patterns of thinking and relating? ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahoy-you-there-or-race-relations-and-semiotics/620391/2 "2012-04-30T14:55:18Z")
> [@brujaja](#): > > My longtime friend’s boyfriend, William, is also a close friend of mine. We talk about everything under the sun, because we are both philosophical and introspective in nature. > > The other night, William (who is black) told me that, at least around here, it is no longer considered cool for anyone, black or white, to address a black man with whom they are not acquainted as “brother.” Not offensive, mind you; just not cool. > > For a black person to say this, he says, is considered weak. (over-conciliatory.) For a white person it’s goofy. (the implication being somewhere between over-familiar, hypocritical, and misappropriating another’s culture.) I guess there is also a “fogey” aspect. > > While I expect that this, like much of cultural drift, is driven largely by youth, and that the philosophical implications of stuff is likely the last thing on their minds (I know it was on mine, back then) – I think a lot about stuff like this, myself. I’m pretty sure this kind of thing falls under the general heading of “semiotics.” > > Think about the different ways we have commonly hailed a (male) stranger over time: goodman, fellow, bub, Jack, Daddy-O, dude, Sir, Mister, brother. What does it mean when a greeting emphasizing kinship falls out of fashion? Or, if it doesn’t “mean” anything exactly, do you think that these kinds of things over time affect and shape our patterns of thinking and relating? Hey bro, there’s a new lingo out there nowadays. How’s about another term instead, bra? (If we wanted to go preppier) So the kinship might still be there, but it’s no longer the same terminology as that which is used in the 60s-70’s. “Bro, Bra, Broski, Dude, man, sir” are all terms I’ve heard more commonly currently than “Brother” currently. I would be surprised to hear someone younger than 30 using the terminology. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahoy-you-there-or-race-relations-and-semiotics/620391/3 "2012-04-30T15:17:09Z")
What the heck is wrong with hailing another person with something completely normal and inoffensive which can also be used for both sexes by both sexes? I am, of course, referring to the wonderful greeting, “Hey Dude!”. Am I right? Come on, y’all, nothing is better than being called ‘Dude’ by someone half your age. It is even better when the hailee is female. As in, “Hey, Dude! Nice hair!” ---
**Author:** ![brujaja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@brujaja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brujaja)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ahoy-you-there-or-race-relations-and-semiotics/620391/4 "2012-05-01T17:22:32Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > I am, of course, referring to the wonderful greeting, “Hey Dude!”. Heh, my personal favorite! I dunno, I was just kinda hoping to get into a thoughtful conversation about the deeper meanings of salutations and the psychology behind them… tell you what, if anyone runs across some erudite paper along these lines, let me know, ok?