# Aid for Haiti -- why is taking so long to get there? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 17, 2010, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aid-for-haiti-why-is-taking-so-long-to-get-there/525256 "2010-01-17T00:51:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aid-for-haiti-why-is-taking-so-long-to-get-there/525256/41 "2010-01-18T18:22:29Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Your entire argument revolves around the idea that the military can’t screw something up on a planning level. I’ve shown that that they have the equipment, training and procedures to do airdrops of food, water and medical supplies. Or, perhaps (just bear with me here) they did not have oodles of personnel waiting on standby with planes and food in just the right condition to start dropping on people. And even if they had, they couldn’t actually deliver it the “last mile” until they put boots on the ground. Once again, you completely ignore the realities of moving things within Haiti as well as into Haiti. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aid-for-haiti-why-is-taking-so-long-to-get-there/525256/42 "2010-01-18T18:28:52Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Or, perhaps (just bear with me here) they did not have oodles of personnel waiting on standby with planes and food in just the right condition to start dropping on people. And even if they had, they couldn’t actually deliver it the “last mile” until they put boots on the ground. Once again, you completely ignore the realities of moving things within Haiti as well as into Haiti. Oodles of personnel? for what? And except for spotting a good landing zone and securing it for a very short time span what boots are needed on the ground? I don’t understand why you think this is hard. It’s already an established discipline of the military. Nothing needs to be trained for. No equipment needs to be modified. The c-130 is uniquely designed for this. You can see from the video that it has a split track ball mat which is perfect for pallet stacked freight. In this case the pallet is cardboard instead of wood. It’s slicker than snot. ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aid-for-haiti-why-is-taking-so-long-to-get-there/525256/43 "2010-01-18T18:44:21Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > From reporter [Adam Housley](http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/01/17/prepared-for-landing-in-port-au-prince/): > > \*\*Just spoke to a Captain (one of them) in charge of relief. He says as normal, we are running the show because while everyone is dropping off stuff, no one stays to help hand it out. It’s great to fill the storehouse, but if no one is there to open the doors, then what good does it do? > > The U.N. has been of little help and to top things off, the Coast Guard and Navy are scrambling to get the port open because gas is getting scarce. > \*\* I resent this. For the first couple of days the only hospital working in the capital of Haiti was an Argentinian Army mobile one. The rest were destroyed. All the world is helping according to their possibilities. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aid-for-haiti-why-is-taking-so-long-to-get-there/525256/44 "2010-01-18T18:53:49Z")
> [@Estilicon](#): > > I resent this. For the first couple of days the only hospital working in the capital of Haiti was an Argentinian Army mobile one. The rest were destroyed. > All the world is helping according to their possibilities. I posted that to show that aircraft/freight was backing up at the airport and that they were contemplating the use of C-130’s for airdrops. It is a fact that aircraft have been delayed and flights canceled. We just canceled a rescue flight from my city and they were people trained for rescuing people in collapsed buildings. Kudo’s to the Argentinian help. ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aid-for-haiti-why-is-taking-so-long-to-get-there/525256/45 "2010-01-18T19:20:06Z")
Ok Maguiver. I just wanted to add that our mobile hospital is there at the request of the UN, together with 600 hundred soldiers. Also the bulk of the security is provided by Brazil, also at the request of the UN. Because of that its false that the UN is of “little help”. [The UN was present before the quake](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A9di_Annabi) ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aid-for-haiti-why-is-taking-so-long-to-get-there/525256/46 "2010-01-18T20:03:35Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Anybody with a charter background knows this stuff. It isn’t a function of me knowing something special. That’s the whole point of my thread. I’m just describing a system that’s already been developed and used (watch the video I linked to). It’s already been done. I’m suggesting nothing out of the ordinary. It’s asinine to suggest that they can deliver freight to an airfield but can’t delivery the same freight repacked for an air drop. > > First off, I never suggested we dump cartloads of crap near the tarmac. I’ve suggested just the opposite. Second, I have 26 years in the business. I’ve worked for 3 major air freight companies. I’ve been a loadmaster, I’ve set up charters, I’ve scheduled routes as an analyst, I’ve worked in systems control. I’ve worked with supply chain warehouses for direct induction of customer freight. You have no idea about the real world or what it takes to move freight. I’ve dealt with everything from a Beech 18 to an Antonov 124. > > This was screwed up from the word go because the task was not adequately defined. It’s obvious that the goal was to drop freight at the airport. We did a great job of that. However, It was a poorly defined goal looking for a warehouse to gather dust in. [The person responsible for this is Gates](http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=67263). Sadly after 6 days the military is now using helicopters (versus cargo planes) for airdrops causing the exact problem Gates used for not using airdrops. > > It doesn’t take days to pack an airplane. it takes hours to pack skids and 30 minutes to load a plane the size of a C-130 and that’s being generous. > > Your entire argument revolves around the idea that the military can’t screw something up on a planning level. I’ve shown that that they have the equipment, training and procedures to do airdrops of food, water and medical supplies. Everything I’ve read from the people who have run this kind of mission before is that simple airdrops don’t work: Able bodied people run to the drops and hoard all the supples for themselves, while the injured, who really need the help, get nothing. ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aid-for-haiti-why-is-taking-so-long-to-get-there/525256/47 "2010-01-18T22:30:21Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > First off, I never suggested we dump cartloads of crap near the tarmac. I’ve suggested just the opposite. Second, I have 26 years in the business. I’ve worked for 3 major air freight companies. I’ve been a loadmaster, I’ve set up charters, I’ve scheduled routes as an analyst, I’ve worked in systems control. I’ve worked with supply chain warehouses for direct induction of customer freight. You have no idea about the real world or what it takes to move freight. I’ve dealt with everything from a Beech 18 to an Antonov 124. I’m just surprised someone with such experience would be so quick to second-guess other experts based on news reports. Haven’t you been in a situation where a client or “expert” suggested some plans that were clearly infeasible because of some factors they don’t know about? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aid-for-haiti-why-is-taking-so-long-to-get-there/525256/48 "2010-01-18T22:46:49Z")
> [@Estilicon](#): > > Ok Maguiver. I just wanted to add that our mobile hospital is there at the request of the UN, together with 600 hundred soldiers. Also the bulk of the security is provided by Brazil, also at the request of the UN. > Because of that its false that the UN is of “little help”. [The UN was present before the quake](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A9di_Annabi) Hey, if we’re doing the whole national pride thing, let me note that a fully-equipped Israeli Military field hospital was ready for business on Saturday and as of today, is the still only place in the city that’s actually capable of performing complex operations, instead of just providing first aid. [CNN Clip.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suo6UzRb850) ---
**Author:** ![Skylark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Skylark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skylark)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aid-for-haiti-why-is-taking-so-long-to-get-there/525256/49 "2010-01-18T22:51:31Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Wow, you know the US has people like this, they are called [Seabees](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seabee) … they happen to have a bunch of them in Gulfport MS … sitting on their asses. They have all sorts of wonderful skills, like building instant airports, clearing rubble, instant buildings and bridges…heck, they have a unit at the submarine base here in Groton CT where as near as I can tell they sit on their asses, and occasionally emerge to practice playing with construction equipment … and they would probably adore a chance to go help build something. > > We also have the US Army’s Corps of Engineers. who also supposedly can actually use construction equipment… > > And oddly enough, all the military construction units seem to have this equipment that somehow packs into aircraft and can be dropped off where it is needed…:dubious: It’s a little difficult to drop a bulldozer out of a C-130 and very few Seabees moonlight as paratroopers. In this situation you’d be far more successful with an amphibious solution. In my post above I talked about Seabees. There are Seabees _there now_. NMCB 7 and divers from Underwater Construction Team 1 are there. [NavyTimes](http://www.navytimes.com/news/2010/01/navy_bataanleave_011410w/). So according to this link, we’ve got: [ul][li]USS Bataan (LHD-5), USS Fort McHenry, USS Carter Hall, along with Beach Group TWO and the 22nd MEU. [/li][li]USS Carl Vinson (CVN-70), and Carrier Air Wing 17[/li][li]USS Normandy, cruiser[/li][li]USS Underwood, frigate[/li][li]USNS Comfort, hospital ship[/li][li]NMCB 7 and UCT 1[/ul][/li]As of Friday, not counting the initial Guantanamo Bay/Coast Guard efforts and whatever the other branches are bringing. ---
**Author:** ![Henrichek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@Henrichek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henrichek)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aid-for-haiti-why-is-taking-so-long-to-get-there/525256/50 "2010-01-19T00:01:20Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Hey, if we’re doing the whole national pride thing, let me note that a fully-equipped Israeli Military field hospital was ready for business on Saturday and as of today, is the still only place in the city that’s actually capable of performing complex operations, instead of just providing first aid. > > [CNN Clip.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suo6UzRb850) This is incorrect. There is also a Russian field hospital that has been performing operations since at least Saturday (they arrived earlier but had problems finding a secure spot to set up). > **[Russian doctors treat over 100 Haitians in mobile hospital](https://sputnikglobe.com/20100118/157590940.html)** > > Russian doctors in Haiti treated more than 100 earthquake survivors over the weekend, and Emergency Situations Ministry representative said on Monday in Moscow. > **[Russia sends airmobile hospital to help Haiti quake victims](https://sputnikglobe.com/20100114/157540779.html)** > > Three Russian emergencies ministry planes took off for Haiti on Thursday carrying rescuers, supplies and equipment including a mobile hospital to help the earthquake-stricken country. > [@](#): > > “It is equipped with intensive care facilities, operating theaters, and consulting and diagnostic departments, including ultrasound, X-ray and ECG units. The hospital also has a blood bank,” a ministry official said. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were other examples too, but the Israeli hospital isn’t the only one. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aid-for-haiti-why-is-taking-so-long-to-get-there/525256/51 "2010-01-19T01:01:20Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Everything I’ve read from the people who have run this kind of mission before is that simple airdrops don’t work: Able bodied people run to the drops and hoard all the supples for themselves, while the injured, who really need the help, get nothing. If we drop large amounts of supplies at a time there is more chance it will reach people. Regardless of how it arrives the injured aren’t going to be standing in line or will be prey to gangs or profiteers. Keep in mind this is only done in the first days before ground movement can be established. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aid-for-haiti-why-is-taking-so-long-to-get-there/525256/52 "2010-01-19T01:04:39Z")
> [@Henrichek](#): > > This is incorrect. There is also a Russian field hospital that has been performing operations since at least Saturday (they arrived earlier but had problems finding a secure spot to set up). I don’t know which group was interviewed but they said they were averaging 60 to 70 amputations per day. One doctor just starting crying. They were talking about 40 hr shifts. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aid-for-haiti-why-is-taking-so-long-to-get-there/525256/53 "2010-01-19T04:33:14Z")
> [@SmackFu](#): > > I’m just surprised someone with such experience would be so quick to second-guess other experts based on news reports. Haven’t you been in a situation where a client or “expert” suggested some plans that were clearly infeasible because of some factors they don’t know about? It wasn’t a quick second-guess. I started looking at it the day of the earthquake with a review of the weather, airport availability, and flight times. [An open letter to the President](http://www.congress.org/congressorg/bio/userletter/?letter_id=4537899916&content_dir=politicsol) (cited same video I posted) [Today the Air Force air dropped food and water](http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/18/haiti.airdrop/index.html?iref=24hours) **“There are so many relief agencies funneling through the airport that it has kind of created a bottleneck,” U.S. Air Force Lt. Col. Leon Strickland told CNN en route to the drop point. “We’re going to put things directly out of the air onto the ground and open up another distribution point north of the [Port-au-Prince] airfield.”** ---
**Author:** ![Henrichek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@Henrichek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henrichek)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aid-for-haiti-why-is-taking-so-long-to-get-there/525256/54 "2010-01-19T18:03:48Z")
Here’s a video of some C-17 airdrop in Haiti: [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8466974.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8466974.stm) ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aid-for-haiti-why-is-taking-so-long-to-get-there/525256/55 "2010-01-19T18:29:44Z")
I saw on Tv today that Cuba had 400 doctors in place within two days. ---
**Author:** ![Sycorax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@Sycorax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sycorax)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aid-for-haiti-why-is-taking-so-long-to-get-there/525256/56 "2010-01-19T22:00:49Z")
Air drop yesterday! Watching Anderson Cooper on CNN, I was glad to hear him go on a rant (several times) about how long everything is taking. (Well, damn, I guess I wasn’t the only one who thought things could be done faster, I sez to myself.) Still haven’t heard how and by whom decisions are being made about priorities. ---
**Author:** ![Sycorax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@Sycorax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sycorax)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aid-for-haiti-why-is-taking-so-long-to-get-there/525256/57 "2010-01-19T23:29:45Z")
P. S. – want something done fast and done right? Call the Israelis. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aid-for-haiti-why-is-taking-so-long-to-get-there/525256/58 "2010-01-19T23:52:02Z")
> [@Sycorax](#): > > P. S. – want something done fast and done right? Call the Israelis. I’m watching a piece on the Israeli Unit right now. They came completely self contained. The patients are photographed and all their files digitized to the point they can be wired to any other unit. Very impressive. It was so nice to see some of the miracle rescues. They’re still pulling people out alive 7 days later. One guy was trying find his wife and they were sawing re-bar with hack saws. A relief team came in and cut their way to her. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aid-for-haiti-why-is-taking-so-long-to-get-there/525256.md?page=2)