# AIDS Disbelievers - shut the FUCK up **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 25, 2001, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-disbelievers-shut-the-fuck-up/78034 "2001-08-25T02:35:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Qwertyasdfg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ecc23a/32.png) [@Qwertyasdfg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwertyasdfg)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-disbelievers-shut-the-fuck-up/78034/1 "2001-08-25T02:35:46Z")
I just saw a segment on 20/20 about some moron who after being diagnosed with HIV, refuses to believe she will get AIDS. She has not taken any steps to fight the virus. I wouldn’t mind this, one less moron in the world, afterall. But this bitch had the nerve to go on a FUCKING WORLD TOUR telling people that HIV doesn’t cause AIDS. This woman doesn’t even have a goddamned college degree! **BITCH SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!** Then, she had a fucking **baby** (note: this invovles unprotected sex) without taking any kind of anti-virals! Her husband said something like “I’ve never believed you can get sick and die from having sex.” DIE YOU MORON! If you don’t want to believe that HIV causes AIDS, fine. But have the respect to find a corner to crawl in and die. Don’t take your fucking broken logic to **South Africa** which already suffers from the worst AIDS epidemic in the world, due in (a great) part, to lack of education and tell people that HIV doesn’t cause AIDS. You deserve to be drawn and quatered! Or worse. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-disbelievers-shut-the-fuck-up/78034/2 "2001-08-25T02:41:41Z")
Ah, free speech is a wonderful thing, isn’t it? HIV doesn’t cause AIDS, and smoking doesn’t cause cancer, and sex doesn’t cause babies either, they’re the result of magical pixie dust, that’s implanted only after a woman’s gateway has been opened. The amazing degree of wilful and proud ignorance out there makes my head hurt sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-disbelievers-shut-the-fuck-up/78034/3 "2001-08-25T02:45:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Qadgop the Mercotan \* > and sex doesn’t cause babies either, they’re the result of magical pixie dust, that’s implanted only after a woman’s gateway has been opened. I don’t remember where I read this, or know if it’s true . . . but this is the place to find out. I read somewhere, some time ago, that there was a tribe (yeah, I know, already it sounds like an UL) that believed the way for a woman to get pregnant was for her and her mate to cook some fish some special way. Ugh. Good luck doing a google search with such an exquisite description. ::hangs head in shame:: ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-disbelievers-shut-the-fuck-up/78034/4 "2001-08-25T02:49:06Z")
The master speaks: [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3\_210.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_210.html) ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-disbelievers-shut-the-fuck-up/78034/5 "2001-08-25T03:05:30Z")
::kneels at QtM’s feet and worships:: We are not worthy. We are not worthy. We are not worthy. [hijack] By the way, what would you recommend for a muscle ache near (attached to) my tongue? I kinda described it in Simetra’s thread.[/hijack] Death to ignorance! ---
**Author:** ![Qwertyasdfg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ecc23a/32.png) [@Qwertyasdfg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwertyasdfg)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-disbelievers-shut-the-fuck-up/78034/6 "2001-08-25T03:10:32Z")
Way to stay on topic! Seriously punah, you couldn’t post that in a seperate thread? ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Maximino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@Mighty\_Maximino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Maximino)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-disbelievers-shut-the-fuck-up/78034/7 "2001-08-25T04:33:49Z")
I assume that the moron in question is Christine Maggiore? Her website is [very scary indeed](http://www.aliveandwell.org). Presumably there are people who don’t believe in bullets, either, but I doubt strongly that would save them from a mugging. Also, if she died of AIDS related complications, any bets that her crowd would claim the drug companies offed her? ---
**Author:** ![Jeannie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e480ec/32.png) [@Jeannie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeannie)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-disbelievers-shut-the-fuck-up/78034/8 "2001-08-25T05:19:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by iampunha \* > > I don’t remember where I read this, or know if it’s true . . . but this is the place to find out. > > I read somewhere, some time ago, that there was a tribe (yeah, I know, already it sounds like an UL) that believed the way for a woman to get pregnant was for her and her mate to cook some fish some special way. > > Ugh. Good luck doing a google search with such an exquisite description. > > ::hangs head in shame:: \*\* I see someone has already provided a link to Cecil’s answer on that. However, I just wanted to point out that this was also a plot on an episode of “Diff’rent Strokes” (Arnold hears that eating salmon will cause pregnancy), and it’s really pathetic that I thought of that immediately when I read your post. Sorry about the hijack. Carry on… (Oh, and that woman must be really fucked up or in very serious denial. HIV doesn’t cause AIDS? Someone alert the Center for Disease Control! :rolleyes: ) ---
**Author:** ![andygirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@andygirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andygirl)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2001, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-disbelievers-shut-the-fuck-up/78034/9 "2001-08-26T03:32:02Z")
It’s a theory that is growing in popularity. Some people are saying that AZT causes it. Morons. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Maximino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@Mighty\_Maximino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Maximino)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2001, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-disbelievers-shut-the-fuck-up/78034/10 "2001-08-26T03:39:18Z")
Hmm, I note that there is a big banner link to Maggiore’s website from [the Foo Fighters](http://www.foofighters.com) website. It’s nice to know that rockers are not just making music these days – they are also about to make revolutionary contributions to peer-reviewed medical journals. Right? Right? Feh. A pox on them. ---
**Author:** ![Montfort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Montfort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Montfort)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2001, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-disbelievers-shut-the-fuck-up/78034/11 "2001-08-26T03:48:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mighty Maximino \* > **Hmm, I note that there is a big banner link to Maggiore’s website from [the Foo Fighters](http://www.foofighters.com) website.** This is scary, indeed. Dave Grohl, what are you thinking?!? :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2001, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-disbelievers-shut-the-fuck-up/78034/12 "2001-08-26T03:53:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andygirl \* > \*\*It’s a theory that is growing in popularity. Some people are saying that AZT causes it. Morons. \*\* Unless you can find some evidence, **don’t** call it a theory! A theory is an explanation backed up by evidence. Gravity is a theory. The scientific term for Maggiore’s shit is a hypothesis, because she has fuck all by way of evidence to back it up. And if you want to keep my blood pressure from rupturing my aorta, don’t mention the word law. Laws are passed by legislative bodies, and therefore have nothing to do with science (except indirectly), no matter what you were told in ‘science’ classes in school. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2001, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-disbelievers-shut-the-fuck-up/78034/13 "2001-08-26T05:03:12Z")
As long as we’re quoting Cecil’s articles…this is from [Is AIDS a manmade disease?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_371.html): > [@](#): > > (nonsense about “AIDS was manufactured by the army for germ warfare” deleted). . . > > The Duesberg risk-group theory, which we may as well cover while we’re on the subject, isn’t quite as bizarre. Peter Duesberg, a respected (until now) virologist at UCal-Berkeley, says human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) doesn’t cause AIDS, as is otherwise almost universally believed. Instead, AIDS is caused by a general weakening of the immune system due to drug abuse, disease, parasites, malnutrition (in Africa), etc. Evidence: U.S. AIDS patients don’t get the same opportunistic diseases that African AIDS patients do; predictions of a sharp upswing in heterosexual U.S. AIDS cases have not come true; the HIV virus isn’t especially virulent and is suppressed by the immune system, etc. > > Duesberg ideas, like Strecker’s, are dismissed by mainstream AIDS researchers. The main counterargument is that people without HIV don’t get AIDS (although a couple apparent exceptions have turned up), while most of those with HIV do get it. Also, drug abuse, parasites, malnutrition, and so on have been around for a long time, but nobody got AIDS until HIV showed up. Cecil’s chief AIDS advisor, SDSTAFF Jill, an AIDS epidemiologist, adds: “We now routinely do viral load tests on people with HIV, which show that in fact people with AIDS have varying quantities of HIV in their bodies. A huge viral load generally corresponds either with recent infection (before the immune system brings it into check) or advanced disease. Current therapies bring the viral count down and people get better. If HIV weren’t to blame for the disease, that wouldn’t happen.” > > Still, Duesberg isn’t a paranoid conspiracy theorist like the Strecker crowd. A few scientists think he may be on to something; more than a hundred have joined the Group for the Scientific Reappraisal of the HIV/AIDS Hypothesis. There have been efforts to portray the guy as a latter-day Galileo, scorned but maybe right. Cecil, Lord knows, isn’t about to dismiss a fellow contrarian out of hand. But I wouldn’t bet the mortgage money on him either. This article is dated June 4, 1993, however, and a lot of stuff’s happened since then. Anyone know the current scoop, or the Straight Dope, as it were? ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2001, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-disbelievers-shut-the-fuck-up/78034/14 "2001-08-26T05:06:56Z")
> [@](#): > > A pox on them. They probably don’t believe in poxes, either. ---
**Author:** ![lucwarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@lucwarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucwarm)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2001, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-disbelievers-shut-the-fuck-up/78034/15 "2001-08-26T18:15:28Z")
I’m not a virologist, but as i understand things the way you would know for sure that HIV causes AIDS is to (1) isolate HIV; (2) inject HIV into a group of lab animals; and (3) observe the animals come down with AIDS. If this hasn’t been done yet, then it seems to me that there is a small possibility that something else causes AIDS. IMHO, AIDS is a serious enough problem that, until we know for sure that HIV causes AIDS, we should seriously consider other possibilities. At the same time, I agree that there is a good amount of evidence that HIV causes AIDS and that from a public health standpoint, we should try to prevent the spread of HIV. ---
**Author:** ![Qwertyasdfg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ecc23a/32.png) [@Qwertyasdfg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwertyasdfg)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2001, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-disbelievers-shut-the-fuck-up/78034/16 "2001-08-26T19:04:05Z")
**lucwarm** , %100 of AIDS patients have/had HIV in their body. I think thats a pretty conclusive evidence. Furthermore, although their may be a 1/1.7 x 10 to the 79th power chance HIV doesn’t cause AIDS (I doubt the odds are even that good), that doesn’t mean that you should spread you scientifically unproven beliefs to other people, and tell them that they can get HIV without getting AIDS, thus endangering peoples’ lives. Also, once you have HIV you should NOT GET PREGNANT. Its not fair to the child. ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2001, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-disbelievers-shut-the-fuck-up/78034/17 "2001-08-26T19:06:11Z")
I know, and have known, several HIV+ people, several of whom have succumbed to AIDS. A phenomenon I’ve witnessed in four cases of people I knew well was what my friends and I referred to as denial. After diagnosis they just wouldn’t alter their lifestyle. Two (a couple) died within two years, and deteriorated rapidly in the last few months. The other two I’ve lost touch with; they reacted similarly though - just wouldn’t do what the doctor said. Something along this line might be operating with the subject of the OP. People will grasp at straws when confronting a ghastly reality. Remember Laetrile? ---
**Author:** ![andygirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@andygirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andygirl)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2001, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-disbelievers-shut-the-fuck-up/78034/18 "2001-08-26T19:08:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Derleth \* > **Unless you can find some evidence, don’t call it a theory! A theory is an explanation backed up by evidence. Gravity is a theory. The scientific term for Maggiore’s shit is a hypothesis, because she has fuck all by way of evidence to back it up.** Agreed. However, it’s commonly being called the Alternate AIDS Theory, proof or no. ---
**Author:** ![Qwertyasdfg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ecc23a/32.png) [@Qwertyasdfg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwertyasdfg)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2001, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-disbelievers-shut-the-fuck-up/78034/19 "2001-08-26T19:16:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by beatle \* > \*\*Remember Laetrile? \*\* No. Enlighten me. I agree, this woman is in denial, but its still unexcusable. ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2001, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-disbelievers-shut-the-fuck-up/78034/20 "2001-08-26T19:38:03Z")
[Laetrile](http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/laetrile.html) was an ineffective cancer cure popular in the '70s (before people had a reasonable hope of defeating cancer). It became controversial when the FDA forbid its use as a cancer treatment and a movement arose calling for the dropping of regulation of therapies for the terminally ill. It was available in Mexico, and many people, including a friend of mine’s father, made the trip down there. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-disbelievers-shut-the-fuck-up/78034.md?page=2)