# AIDS More Widespread Among US Gays than Previously Thought **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 8, 2002, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-more-widespread-among-us-gays-than-previously-thought/117946 "2002-07-08T19:08:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2002, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-more-widespread-among-us-gays-than-previously-thought/117946/1 "2002-07-08T19:08:11Z")
We’ve had this discussion several times before: Whenever a gay poster mentions a one-night stand or casually hooking up with a partner, someone usually posts in the thread to remind them to be careful and practice safe sex. Other gay posters usually rip the safe-sex poster a new one for their audacity to presume the gay population doesn’t know about AIDS and safe sex. A recently released [study](http://www.cnn.com/2002/HEALTH/conditions/07/08/aids.awareness.ap/index.html) indicates that a majority (77 percent) of the gay and bisexual men in the study who tested HIV positive don’t even realize they have the disease. A few excerpts: "On Sunday, Dr. Ronald Valdiserri, the CDC’s deputy director for HIV, STD and TB prevention, warned that infection rates could climb again unless prevention efforts are stepped up. The rates have remained fairly stable at 10,000 new cases every three months since 1998. … Another CDC study presented at the conference, which examined anonymous blood samples of 40,000 high-risk patients of all ages, found that the rate of new infections for gay and bisexual men was nine times higher than for women and heterosexual men." Folks, this Web site is about fighting ignorance. Obviously, when 77 percent of gay and bisexual men infected with a deadly disease don’t even know they have it, a certain level of ignorance exists. It may be personally offensive to you to hear the safe-sex mantra over and over, but there’s evidence that the message needs to be told in as many ways and in as many places as possible. Some of the folks who get upset about these safe-sex reminders are long-time and valued posters here. Speaking for the Board as a whole (which I’m allowed to do, being Evil Incarnate and all), we don’t want to lose you. Yes, hearing this reminder about safe sex is akin to your mother telling you every time you walk out the door to buckle your seatbelt. But she does that because she cares. Rather than getting upset at a reminder, could you refrain from attacking a poster (_any_ poster) who is repeating the safe-sex mantra? It obviously needs to be said. I’m putting this in the Pit, because I’m sure the responses (if there are any; in addition to being Evil Incarnate, I’m a threadkiller, too) will get heated. I hope not. I’m not trying to be confrontational; I just don’t want to lose anyone here (or any lurkers) to this senseless disease. ---
**Author:** ![Francesca](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9fc348/32.png) [@Francesca](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francesca)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2002, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-more-widespread-among-us-gays-than-previously-thought/117946/2 "2002-07-08T19:17:02Z")
I would be interested to know what percentage of heterosexuals who tested positive for HIV didn’t know they’re infected either. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2002, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-more-widespread-among-us-gays-than-previously-thought/117946/3 "2002-07-08T19:40:46Z")
> [@](#): > > AIDS More Widespread Among US Gays than Previously Thought What in your OP, or the study you cited, supports this? ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2002, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-more-widespread-among-us-gays-than-previously-thought/117946/4 "2002-07-08T20:07:11Z")
Nothing. Poor choice of words for the title. I wrote it first, meaning to go back and edit it. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2002, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-more-widespread-among-us-gays-than-previously-thought/117946/5 "2002-07-08T20:17:34Z")
Gotcha. No worries, then. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2002, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-more-widespread-among-us-gays-than-previously-thought/117946/6 "2002-07-08T22:02:37Z")
Who thinks they have it? People go to get tested because they are worried and want a clean bill of health. Then they find out that they _are_ infected, and I would think most wouldn’t have thought they were. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2002, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-more-widespread-among-us-gays-than-previously-thought/117946/7 "2002-07-08T22:25:30Z")
Yeah, I was (am) a little uncertain about the methodology here, too, **Hastur**. It’s a little unclear how they did the study, but the _Times_ article and the CNN story above indicate that they _might_ have improperly selected against people who might reasonably have suspected and already taken steps. Does someone have a link to the study itself? A quick perusal of the “methodology” section may be useful here. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2002, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-more-widespread-among-us-gays-than-previously-thought/117946/8 "2002-07-08T22:40:10Z")
What Frannie said, plus: how big, in percentage, is this group of HIV infected gays (of which 77% were unaware) compared to the test group of gays out of which they came? Surely, there was a larger test population (of indeterminate HIV status, at least to the researchers), or this test is absolutely worthless. All it says now is: “the tiny group of gay people in our test who have contracted HIV are often quite ignorant of the intricacies of the disease”. Well, duh. Had they been up to speed, they would not have contracted it in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Wabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba9def/32.png) [@Wabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wabbit)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2002, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-more-widespread-among-us-gays-than-previously-thought/117946/9 "2002-07-08T23:00:13Z")
I didn’t find a full-text version of this study online, but from what I’ve read the study was based on blood tests from a randomly chosen sample of gay men in night clubs, bars, dance halls, etc. (i.e. traditional gay–and straight–courting areas). I also wouldn’t call a 570-person testing pool a ‘tiny group’ but I would also agree that larger=better in studies such as these. My main concern with this study is that it again seems to reinforce the AIDS=gay/African problem linkage that always seems to occur in the media. I would also be interested in how many straight HIV-positive people were aware they had the disease. Some more links for ya: [http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/world/3621217.htm](http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/world/3621217.htm) (another good article on the conference) > **[TIME Homepage](https://time.com/time_cover_hub/aids/)** > > Breaking news and analysis from TIME.com. Politics, world news, photos, video, tech reviews, health, science and entertainment news. If you’re not depressed/scared about this pandemic already, just look at this site. It has a lot of older articles on it too so it makes for an interesting history lesson too. ---
**Author:** ![Ankh\_Too](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3ab097/32.png) [@Ankh\_Too](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ankh_Too)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2002, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-more-widespread-among-us-gays-than-previously-thought/117946/10 "2002-07-08T23:51:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > \*\*What Frannie said, plus: how big, in percentage, is this group of HIV infected gays (of which 77% were unaware) compared to the test group of gays out of which they came? > \*\* Those infected made up approximately 10% of the total of those surveyed for the study. From CNN’s [report](http://www.cnn.com/2002/HEALTH/conditions/07/08/aids.awareness.ap/index.html) > [@](#): > > Researchers surveyed 5,719 men aged 15 to 29 at dance clubs, bars, health clubs and street locations in Baltimore, Dallas, Los Angeles, Miami, New York and Seattle from 1994 to 2000. > > Of the 573 who tested HIV positive, 440, or 77 percent, had not known they were infected with the virus. Around half of those men hadn’t been tested in the past year and half were having anal sex without condoms, said MacKellar. ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2002, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-more-widespread-among-us-gays-than-previously-thought/117946/11 "2002-07-09T00:02:53Z")
This is the part I found disturbing:[from here](http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/08/health/08AIDS.html?ex=1026705600&en=4562dda9caaf53b9&ei=5006&partner=ALTAVISTA1) > [@](#): > > Most of these infected men perceived themselves to be at low risk of being infected, despite having engaged in frequent high-risk sex like unprotected anal intercourse, said Duncan MacKellar, an epidemiologist from the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta, which conducted the study. If this is an accurate representation of the attitudes of young gay(and straight, for that matter) men today, it makes me wonder if current efforts in education are having any effect at all. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2002, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-more-widespread-among-us-gays-than-previously-thought/117946/12 "2002-07-09T00:10:21Z")
I would wonder if this test tended to select against people who already knew that they were HIV+. These people, when asked to participate and told that a blood test was involved, would probably think more often than other people, “Nah, I don’t need to do this study” since they do know their status already. The article mentioned studies done on people wanting to join the military or applying for jobs that require being tested. These people do not have the option to decline testing. In a study such as the one listed, people do have the ability to decline to participate, and would have to be informed of things like a blood test before agreeing. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2002, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-more-widespread-among-us-gays-than-previously-thought/117946/13 "2002-07-09T15:47:28Z")
True, but I fail to see how that affects the outcome much. They surveyed more than 5,700 men, of whom roughly 570 tested positive. In your scenario, another 2,000 (for example) might have declined to participate in the survey because they already knew their positive status. That would lower the percentage of those who didn’t know they were positive, but it would raise the overall percentage of those who were positive. I’m not sure that’s an improvement. The other troubling fact is barely mentioned in the story – that of the study of 40,000 blood samples from high-risk people. Gay and bisexual men are _nine times_ more likely to become infected with HIV than women or heterosexual men who also participate in high-risk behaviors? That’s just wrong. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2002, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-more-widespread-among-us-gays-than-previously-thought/117946/14 "2002-07-09T16:29:13Z")
Is there a particular accessability to HIV via the _ahem_ other end? Or is it a sub-cultural thingy? ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2002, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-more-widespread-among-us-gays-than-previously-thought/117946/15 "2002-07-09T16:35:20Z")
> [@](#): > > Is there a particular accessability to HIV via the _ahem_ other end? Yes, most especially if you don’t use a condom. Anyway, this is just one of the many reasons why I scarcely ever have anal sex (besides the fact that I find topping overrated and bottoming very painful for me). ---
**Author:** ![belladonna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9fc29f/32.png) [@belladonna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/belladonna)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2002, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-more-widespread-among-us-gays-than-previously-thought/117946/16 "2002-07-09T16:48:36Z")
**smiling bandit** –the problems arise more often with anal intercourse because it is more traumatic to the tissue. Compared to oral or vaginal sex, getting a rectal poking is much more likely to cause small tears or abrasions in the skin, which then serve as perfect points of entry for the virus. bella–who thinks things are going to get a lot worse before they get better ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2002, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-more-widespread-among-us-gays-than-previously-thought/117946/17 "2002-07-09T23:33:34Z")
I also wonder how the numbers compare HIV+ vs. HIV- in the gay community, and heterosexual HIV+ vs. homosexual HIV+. **Jillgat**? Little help? I, too, am not surprised that a majority of people who find out they’re positive are caught unawares - “it can never happen to me,” of course. ☹ Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Truth\_Seeker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Truth\_Seeker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truth_Seeker)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2002, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-more-widespread-among-us-gays-than-previously-thought/117946/18 "2002-07-10T01:27:38Z")
While all this is bad enough, it’s not the worst part. > [@](#): > > \*\*Syphilis rates among men in New York City rose to 6.9 per 100,000 people in 2001, from 2.8 in 2000. Most cases were among gay men. In San Francisco, the number of reported syphilis cases rose to 116 cases in 2001, from 22 in 1999. Preliminary figures suggest the number will rise even higher in 2002. \*\* “Ordinary” STD transmission rates are a good proxy for HIV transmission rates. Maybe most folks who read this board have gotten the safe sex message, a growing number of people haven’t. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2002, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-more-widespread-among-us-gays-than-previously-thought/117946/19 "2002-07-10T04:01:50Z")
I think that’s the crux of the “please don’t lecture us about safe sex” discussion of previous weeks - you’re preaching to the choir here on the SDMB. We all get it - it’s those _outside_ our humbly enlightened community that don’t. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2002, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-more-widespread-among-us-gays-than-previously-thought/117946/20 "2002-07-10T05:08:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > \*\*I think that’s the crux of the “please don’t lecture us about safe sex” discussion of previous weeks - you’re preaching to the choir here on the SDMB. We all get it - it’s those _outside_ our humbly enlightened community that don’t. > > Esprix \*\* Hear, Hear! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-more-widespread-among-us-gays-than-previously-thought/117946.md?page=2)