# AIDS vs. Aids, NATO vs. Nato. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 30, 2004, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-vs-aids-nato-vs-nato/237292 "2004-03-30T12:45:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-vs-aids-nato-vs-nato/237292/1 "2004-03-30T12:45:29Z")
I’ve noticed a creeping stupid behavior recently and wonder what its origin is. Acronyms are properly spelled with all capital letters, however, some true fools have decided that AIDS (Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome) is to be spelled “Aids” and NATO (North Atlantic Treaty Organization) is to be spelled “Nato”. What is behind adopting this stupid practice? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-vs-aids-nato-vs-nato/237292/2 "2004-03-30T12:48:33Z")
I doubt that anything sinister is behind it. It’s just ignorance about rules of grammar. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-vs-aids-nato-vs-nato/237292/3 "2004-03-30T14:03:58Z")
Seeing ABBA written as Abba does drive me nuts. It’s just ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-vs-aids-nato-vs-nato/237292/4 "2004-03-30T14:08:00Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Seeing ABBA written as Abba does drive me nuts. It’s just ignorant. Is ABBA an acronym? I did not know that (although I’ve always seen it in all caps). ---
**Author:** ![Low\_Key\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@Low\_Key\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Low_Key_1)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-vs-aids-nato-vs-nato/237292/5 "2004-03-30T14:22:48Z")
> [@dantheman](#): > > Is ABBA an acronym? I did not know that (although I’ve always seen it in all caps). **A** gneta Fältskog, **B** jörn Ulvaeus, **B** enny Andersson, **A** nni-Frid Lyngstad. I only know that because I’m Swedish. I can’t stand the band, personally. I swear. ---
**Author:** ![Gest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Gest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gest)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-vs-aids-nato-vs-nato/237292/6 "2004-03-30T14:29:23Z")
> [@dantheman](#): > > Is ABBA an acronym? I did not know that (although I’ve always seen it in all caps). I’ve always seen it in all caps too but I’m pretty sure it stands for their first names; Anni-Frid, Benny, Bjorn and Agnetha. The _creeping stupid bahaviour_ is to be expected though. As an acronym gains acceptance in a lexicon, people will eventually forget it ever _was_ an acronym. The non-capitalisation of laser, radar, Nazi and sonar doesn’t seem to raise heart rates for people the way Nato has for Dogface and Nato won’t either by the time we’re all dead. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-vs-aids-nato-vs-nato/237292/7 "2004-03-30T14:52:01Z")
It has nothing to do with the rules of grammar. It has to do with style. And the rule for style is simple: do whatever you want, as long as you’re consistent. Thus “Aids” is perfectly acceptable. (It’s not an acronym anyway, since the correct acronym for “Acquired immunodeficiency syndrome” is obviously AIS.) There is no requirement that an word formed by taking the letters of its component pharse be rendered in all caps. Do you object to radar, sonar, scuba, or snafu? Language changes. And certain people always complain that changes they don’t like are a sign of stupidity, as though they expect the world to ask their approval. ---
**Author:** ![kellner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c2a13f/32.png) [@kellner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellner)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-vs-aids-nato-vs-nato/237292/8 "2004-03-30T15:16:45Z")
> [@Gest](#): > > Nazi This comes up from time to time, but _Nazi_ isn’t an acronym. It is a shortened form of _Nationalsozialist_ (meaning, _surprise_ “national socialist”,) the beginning of which is pronounced the same as _Nazi_ in German. _Nazi_ is pronounced more or less the same in both languages. It is pretty much analogous to the word _commie_. An important Nazi-related acronym is NSDAP for “ **N** ational **s** ozialistische **D** eutsche **A** rbeiter **p** artei” meaning “National socialist German workers’ party” ---
**Author:** ![Gest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Gest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gest)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-vs-aids-nato-vs-nato/237292/9 "2004-03-30T15:25:46Z")
Oops. Entschuldigung. And here I invoke Godwin erroneously. Should have known better. ---
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-vs-aids-nato-vs-nato/237292/10 "2004-03-30T16:21:01Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > It has nothing to do with the rules of grammar. It has to do with style. And the rule for style is simple: do whatever you want, as long as you’re consistent. Absolutely. And BTW, it’s the style of [BBC Online](http://news.bbc.co.uk/), which is as far from stupid as smarts are from Jessica Simpson. So, if you’re in the U.K. (and perhaps in some Commonwealth nations, though I’m not so sure about this), you’d better get used to this “stupid” style. \ I think the BBC uses this style only if one can _pronounce_ the acronym. In these cases, it’s therefore written as if it’s a proper noun. I still think the BBC would write, for example, RNIB in all caps, 'coz one would say the letters individually rather than read them as a word. Strangely, the [BBC News Styleguide](http://www.bbctraining.com/pdfs/newsstyleguide.pdf) is mum on the matter, as far as I could tell. \ ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-vs-aids-nato-vs-nato/237292/11 "2004-03-30T20:06:48Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Thus “Aids” is perfectly acceptable. (It’s not an acronym anyway, since the correct acronym for “Acquired immunodeficiency syndrome” is obviously AIS.) Sorry, you’ve got the words slightly off. In the US, the normal breakdown is [Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome,](http://www.aids.org/factSheets/101-What-is-AIDS.html) so AIS would be leaving out a word. Besides, [AIS](http://www.medhelp.org/www/ais/21_OVERVIEW.HTM#Start) is yet another disease. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-vs-aids-nato-vs-nato/237292/12 "2004-03-30T20:14:03Z")
> [@Spiff](#): > > I think the BBC uses this style only if one can _pronounce_ the acronym. In these cases, it’s therefore written as if it’s a proper noun. I still think the BBC would write, for example, RNIB in all caps, 'coz one would say the letters individually rather than read them as a word. Strangely, the [BBC News Styleguide](http://www.bbctraining.com/pdfs/newsstyleguide.pdf) is mum on the matter, as far as I could tell. That’s certainly the case in the Guardian style guide. [Guardian and Observer style guide: P | | The Guardian](http://www.guardian.co.uk/styleguide/page/0,5817,184844,00.html) And would the OP expect the residents of Soweto to use capitals to represent the name’s origin, SOuth WEstern TOwnship? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-vs-aids-nato-vs-nato/237292/13 "2004-03-30T20:28:17Z")
> [@gotpasswords](#): > > Sorry, you’ve got the words slightly off. In the US, the normal breakdown is [Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome,](http://www.aids.org/factSheets/101-What-is-AIDS.html) so AIS would be leaving out a word. > > Besides, [AIS](http://www.medhelp.org/www/ais/21_OVERVIEW.HTM#Start) is yet another disease. Another style issue, of course. The GPO Style manual uses “immunodeficiency.” Since they are the guide for all US Government publications, that’s a legitimate name for it. ---
**Author:** ![Tuco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tuco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuco)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-vs-aids-nato-vs-nato/237292/14 "2004-03-30T20:30:15Z")
> [@Spiff](#): > > Absolutely. > > And BTW, it’s the style of [BBC Online](http://news.bbc.co.uk/), which is as far from stupid as smarts are from Jessica Simpson. > > So, if you’re in the U.K. (and perhaps in some Commonwealth nations, though I’m not so sure about this), you’d better get used to this “stupid” style. > > \ > > I think the BBC uses this style only if one can _pronounce_ the acronym. In these cases, it’s therefore written as if it’s a proper noun. I still think the BBC would write, for example, RNIB in all caps, 'coz one would say the letters individually rather than read them as a word. Strangely, the [BBC News Styleguide](http://www.bbctraining.com/pdfs/newsstyleguide.pdf) is mum on the matter, as far as I could tell. > > \ This has come up before on the SDMB - someone emailed the BBC and asked about it. The BBC’s response was that if you say the acronym as a word (like Aids), then only the first letter is capitalised, but if you say the letters (eg. BBC) then they’re all in capitals. I’ll try and do a search for that thread; I may be some time. ---
**Author:** ![Tuco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tuco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuco)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-vs-aids-nato-vs-nato/237292/15 "2004-03-30T20:51:15Z")
Found the thread: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=108438&highlight=aids](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=108438&highlight=aids) ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-vs-aids-nato-vs-nato/237292/16 "2004-03-30T21:35:04Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > It has nothing to do with the rules of grammar. Quote specifically where I stated that it was a matter of grammar. It’s a matter of ignorance. > [@](#): > > Thus “Aids” is perfectly acceptable. (It’s not an acronym anyway, since the correct acronym for “Acquired immunodeficiency syndrome” is obviously AIS.) Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome: AIDS. Mangling acronyms is not acceptable, except among the l33T d00D crowd. > [@](#): > > Do you object to radar, sonar, scuba, or snafu? That’s “RADAR”, “SONAR”, “SCUBA”, and “SNAFU”, thank you very much. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-vs-aids-nato-vs-nato/237292/17 "2004-03-30T21:42:53Z")
> [@Dogface](#): > > That’s “RADAR”, “SONAR”, “SCUBA”, and “SNAFU”, thank you very much. Can you provide a single modern instance where these are used capitalised? If not, then does that not suggest the capitalisation is obsolete? ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2004, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aids-vs-aids-nato-vs-nato/237292/18 "2004-03-31T04:32:45Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Another style issue, of course. The GPO Style manual uses “immunodeficiency.” Since they are the guide for all US Government publications, that’s a legitimate name for it. I suspect that when AIDS was first discovered, “immuno deficiency” was expressed as two words; therefore, the acronym was AIDS. As the spelled-out phrase became more prevelant, “immunodeficiency” entered the lexicon as one word - but people continued to use AIDS. Therefore AIDS remains an acronym, albeit to a phrase that has been altered over time - but no one’s going to suddenly call the disease AIS.