# Aiming a rifle by balancing it on the forearm **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 9, 2010, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aiming-a-rifle-by-balancing-it-on-the-forearm/538803 "2010-05-09T07:59:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aiming-a-rifle-by-balancing-it-on-the-forearm/538803/1 "2010-05-09T07:59:34Z")
One for the firearms aficionados - at the end of _The Good, The Bad and The Ugly_, Blondie shoots down Tuco from a noose by aiming his rifle, which I think is a lever action repeater, in a quite unusual way, he [rests it on his forearm as he fires](http://www.gonemovies.com/WWW/WanadooFilms/Western/GoodGood.jpg), as opposed to [holding it normally](http://website.lineone.net/~braithwaitej/mainsite/overview/guns/winchester4.jpg). Would this increase accuracy? Was it ever done, or is a cinema invention? ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aiming-a-rifle-by-balancing-it-on-the-forearm/538803/2 "2010-05-09T08:04:23Z")
Your first link must not allow hotlinking, because it’s not showing what I think you want it to be. EDIT: You can also read your whole spoilered part in the mouseover preview by the way. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aiming-a-rifle-by-balancing-it-on-the-forearm/538803/3 "2010-05-09T08:10:21Z")
Hmm, that’s annoying. [Try this link instead.](http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/8159/goodgood.jpg) Forgot about mouseover space, but it was more of a courtesy anyway. Hopefully its in ‘it was his sled’ territory by now. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aiming-a-rifle-by-balancing-it-on-the-forearm/538803/4 "2010-05-09T09:30:44Z")
Cinematic invention, is my guess. It just added to Clint’s coolness quotient. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aiming-a-rifle-by-balancing-it-on-the-forearm/538803/5 "2010-05-09T09:32:33Z")
Doc Brown uses the same trick in _Back to the Future III_. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aiming-a-rifle-by-balancing-it-on-the-forearm/538803/6 "2010-05-09T11:55:30Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > Would this increase accuracy? Was it ever done, or is a cinema invention? You know, I asked myself the same question when I saw that scene. I have never used it. I’ve had a lot of friends come over and shoot over the years, and I have never seen \*anyone \*use it. I just thumbed through _Art of the Rifle_ by Col. Jeff Cooper, and he makes no mention of it. So I don’t know. Maybe I’ll try it this afternoon and let you know my impression of it. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aiming-a-rifle-by-balancing-it-on-the-forearm/538803/7 "2010-05-09T12:43:47Z")
If we’re talking specifically about balancing on the elbow joint, I would have to think it improve control of aim in the vertical dimension while degrading it in the horizontal. Your arm would be working against less gravity-induced torque and using fewer muscle groups, meaning less fatigue and twitching. However, in order to displace aim horizontally, you’d need to use larger muscle groups than normal, potentially rotating your whole body. One standing position I’ve seen that is supposed to provide maximum stability is to brace the elbow on a hip so that the rifle is stabilized against gravity by a continuous column of bone going directly to the earth. It looks pretty, um, strange, but that’s probably the better way to do what the forearm trick purports to do. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aiming-a-rifle-by-balancing-it-on-the-forearm/538803/8 "2010-05-09T12:54:39Z")
> [@Cosmic Relief](#): > > One standing position I’ve seen that is supposed to provide maximum stability is to brace the elbow on a hip so that the rifle is stabilized against gravity by a continuous column of bone going directly to the earth. It looks pretty, um, strange, but that’s probably the better way to do what the forearm trick purports to do. It is called the [standing position](http://www.freewebs.com/thurnscoerifleclub/Paul%20L.JPG), and is often used in competition. The “regular/standard” upright shooting position is called [offhand](http://www.hunter-ed.com/images/drawings/rifle_position_standing.jpg). The standing position is steadier, but more restrictive and slower to assume. Personally, I prefer offhand for upright shooting. That is, \*when \*I shoot upright… I \*\*\*much \*\*\*prefer prone. The vast majority of my shooting is done in prone. Prone rules. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aiming-a-rifle-by-balancing-it-on-the-forearm/538803/9 "2010-05-09T13:25:27Z")
I’ve done something similar hunting squirrels. You hold on to something (like a tree) with your left hand, rest your elbow on a limb of the tree, then rest your rifle on the forearm. Yes, it’s more stable, and can increase your accurate range. I’ve never tried it with a full-power rifle, though, just .22s and pellet guns. I don’t know how it would work with a rifle that large. And, btw, I’ve seen it mentioned in hunting and shooting magazines, which is how I got the idea to try it. ---
**Author:** ![notsoheavyd3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/85e7bf/32.png) [@notsoheavyd3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notsoheavyd3)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aiming-a-rifle-by-balancing-it-on-the-forearm/538803/10 "2010-05-09T13:25:40Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > It is called the [standing position](http://www.freewebs.com/thurnscoerifleclub/Paul%20L.JPG), and is often used in competition. The “regular/standard” upright shooting position is called [offhand](http://www.hunter-ed.com/images/drawings/rifle_position_standing.jpg). > > The standing position is steadier, but more restrictive and slower to assume. Personally, I prefer offhand for upright shooting. That is, \*when \*I shoot upright… I \*\*\*much \*\*\*prefer prone. The vast majority of my shooting is done in prone. Prone rules. Just curious, what’s the difference between offhand and that shooting style I’ve seen R Lee Ermy use? (It looks like offhand except his hand is rotated 180 degrees.) ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aiming-a-rifle-by-balancing-it-on-the-forearm/538803/11 "2010-05-09T13:27:37Z")
Blondie’s left hand seems to be grasping something that projects downward. If it is a horse bridle, no gain, but if it is a rigid post of some sort, or a stable point of some sort, then this method would provide a more stable support than offhand shooting (your second link). If he’s on a horse all bets are off and it is pure Hollywood. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aiming-a-rifle-by-balancing-it-on-the-forearm/538803/12 "2010-05-09T13:42:37Z")
> [@notsoheavyd3](#): > > Just curious, what’s the difference between offhand and that shooting style I’ve seen R Lee Ermy use? (It looks like offhand except his hand is rotated 180 degrees.) Something like [this](http://media.photobucket.com/image/R%20Lee%20Ermey%20shooting%20rifle/cmb5383/Gun%20tech/r1.jpg)? I don’t know… that’s an oddball position. I guess an argument could be made that steadiness is improved due to the forearm being pressed against the magazine. I’m skeptical, though… if it were any good I would expect to see people using it. I’ll give it a try. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aiming-a-rifle-by-balancing-it-on-the-forearm/538803/13 "2010-05-09T14:06:13Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Personally, I prefer offhand for upright shooting. That is, \*when \*I shoot upright… I \*\*\*much \*\*\*prefer prone. The vast majority of my shooting is done in prone. Prone rules. Yeah, there’s no substitute for prone supported, but Clint Eastwood is too manly for that. ---
**Author:** ![notsoheavyd3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/85e7bf/32.png) [@notsoheavyd3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notsoheavyd3)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aiming-a-rifle-by-balancing-it-on-the-forearm/538803/14 "2010-05-09T14:09:50Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Something like [this](http://media.photobucket.com/image/R%20Lee%20Ermey%20shooting%20rifle/cmb5383/Gun%20tech/r1.jpg)? > > I don’t know… that’s an oddball position. I guess an argument could be made that steadiness is improved due to the forearm being pressed against the magazine. I’m skeptical, though… if it were any good I would expect to see people using it. I’ll give it a try. Yup, that’s pretty much it. Every time I see Sgt Ermey shoot a rifle he holds it like that and I was curious what the deal is. (Since he knows what he’s doing) ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aiming-a-rifle-by-balancing-it-on-the-forearm/538803/15 "2010-05-09T14:15:43Z")
> [@Cosmic Relief](#): > > Yeah, there’s no substitute for prone supported, but Clint Eastwood is too manly for that. [Here](http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/3/34/TOJWSharpsSniper-2.jpg/600px-TOJWSharpsSniper-2.jpg) is a pic of Josey Wales using a log to support his rifle. I \*think \*this is where he shot the rope spanning the river, thereby sending the ferry downstream. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aiming-a-rifle-by-balancing-it-on-the-forearm/538803/16 "2010-05-09T14:39:08Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > which I think is a lever action repeater That was a Sharps 1874, which was a single-shot cartridge breech-loader. I have one. . ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aiming-a-rifle-by-balancing-it-on-the-forearm/538803/17 "2010-05-09T15:16:23Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > That was a Sharps 1874, which was a single-shot cartridge breech-loader. I have one. > . Damn, colour me jealous. An anachronism though, since the film’s set in the U.S. Civil War. Those standing techniques look awkward and uncomfortable as hell, would it be worthwhile doing in combat? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aiming-a-rifle-by-balancing-it-on-the-forearm/538803/18 "2010-05-09T15:34:41Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > Damn, colour me jealous. An anachronism though, since the film’s set in the U.S. Civil War. Thinking of selling it. I’ve had it for probably 17 or 18 years and I haven’t gotten round to firing it yet! The Gatling gun was demonstrated in combat, but wasn’t adopted until 1866. Lee Van Cleef carries cartridges for his percussion Remington. IMFDb says that there were cartridge-converted Colt 1851s used, which weren’t available until after the war. This seems to be a ‘film expedient’ though. That is, they were supposed to be percussion ones, but needed to use ‘close enough’ ones for filming purposes. > [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > Those standing techniques look awkward and uncomfortable as hell, would it be worthwhile doing in combat? I can’t answer that one directly, but I can say that bison hunters – who frequently used Sharps rifles – used ‘shooting sticks’ to stead their aim. These were simply a pair of sticks that were crossed and tied several inches from the top, and often had a leather sling between the short ends. Improvised bipods, basically. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aiming-a-rifle-by-balancing-it-on-the-forearm/538803/19 "2010-05-09T18:28:39Z")
Do what works for you. prone is very good except in 2 feet of water. Of hand may be good but not in a shallow trench. Bi-pod is good except for quail hunting. See the problem here. What ever works for you. I NEVER criticize a persons methods until I consistently out shoot them and know for a fact they do not have a problem that precludes their doing it a different way. Guy I know was shooting off his mouth about some dude using the wrong eye to aim with and why would he not do it right. That guy shot the pants off the guy I knew. Turns out he had one glass eye. Just cause it don’t work for you don’t mean it don’t work for somebody. ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aiming-a-rifle-by-balancing-it-on-the-forearm/538803/20 "2010-05-10T07:36:42Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > That guy shot the pants off the guy I knew. Now _that’s_ some fancy shooting! :eek: [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aiming-a-rifle-by-balancing-it-on-the-forearm/538803.md?page=2)