# Air Bus Down in the Hudson River **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 15, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493 "2009-01-15T21:05:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/141 "2009-01-17T00:24:00Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > The entire flight crew was great. They got everybody off the plane in 90 seconds. 155 people off the plane in 90 seconds. I heard one passenger calling it organized chaos. But that was a fantastic piece of flying and rescue and I don’t think one thing went wrong, from the landing to the boats ferrying over there toot sweet. As has been stated before, the pilot deserves all the praise he gets. But the other points above are relevant as well. In large measure, those people survived because of the advanced society in the United States. We may have our faults…but the roots of the successful rescue run deep. Starting with the people who designed the airplane, the training regimen to fly it, the flight simulators, the Air Force training of Sullenberger and everything that went into all those factors played a part. As did the training and professionalism of the flight crew, boat captains, first responders and medical personnel. Even the quick and heroic actions of passengers and ordinary citizens that have yet to to be told can be credited to the fact that they live in a country where they can be educated and trained in independent thought and action. We as a people are greater than the sum of our parts. I’m thankful every day to live here. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/142 "2009-01-17T00:26:18Z")
Great post - except the Airbus is a European design. Of course, Europe also has an advanced society and they deserve credit for designing a good aircraft. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/143 "2009-01-17T00:28:30Z")
This is an interesting tidbit I just saw, [Device helped ensure US Airways plane would float](http://www.newsday.com/news/printedition/longisland/ny-lifloa166000583jan16,0,7833423.story) > [@](#): > > Planes can float, but the US Airways Airbus A320 that crashed into the Hudson River yesterday had a better chance than most. That’s because it was equipped with a special device unique to Airbus planes that increased the likelihood it would stay on top of the water. > > The device, called a “ditching switch,” effectively seals the plane by closing valves and ventilation ports, a spokesman for the airline said. > > Industry experts said the ditching switch is rarely invoked, as “it’s not as if anyone expects to ditch these planes,” said Robert W. Mann, who owns a Port Washington-based aviation consulting company. > > With the valves and ports shut, “a float line” is created, Airbus spokeswoman Mary Anne Greczyn said in an e-mail. > > “The ditching switch closes all of the open ports in the bottom of the fuselage,” said Frank Ayers, chairman of the flight training department at Embry Riddle Aeronautical University in Daytona Beach, Fla. > > Mann said opening an emergency exit - which happened yesterday when the plane was evacuated - is not a problem as long as the door is above the waterline. > > Peter R. Leffe, an aviation accident investigator in Malibu, Calif., noted that because airplanes in general are pressurized, they have some ability to float, providing they don’t break up when they hit water. “The airplane is a pressure vessel,” he said. “It can float as long as water doesn’t leak in.” > > But airplanes can’t float forever. > > … ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/144 "2009-01-17T00:48:52Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > [Link.](http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/2009/01/us-air-1549-nyc-flight-track.html) > > Looks like they might just barely have reached TEB, but maybe not, and they wouldn’t have been lined up with either runway there. Coldly put, the decision might have been to kill only the occupants of the plane, not people on the ground too. I heard whatever they call McNeill Lehrer now on my way back from a meeting (our local NPR station broadcasts it) and they had two veteran pilots with experience in crash investigations on. They said exactly this. They figured that when he lost both engines (they were sure he had) he would have considered going back to LGA, but that is in a fairly crowded area, then considered going to TEB, same problem, and then decided to take the river route. Both airports also have short runways, and it might not have been possible to kill enough energy to land safely. The trick, they said, was to to lose energy gliding very low and then drop into the water, which doesn’t sound easy. They said his glider pilot experience certainly helped a lot. Some of us humans can do amazing things, can’t we? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/145 "2009-01-17T00:59:06Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Also, the latest news is that the left engine was not found with the plane. The crash was in New York. Some “capitalizing individuals” probably found a way to steal it overnight. A damaged jet engine isn’t worth that much as a whole but it is worth a lot of money once it is stripped for parts in a chop shop. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/146 "2009-01-17T00:59:24Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Some of us humans can do amazing things, can’t we? Yes, we can, and we should take credit for it where we can. It was not due to a miracle, an angel, or a god. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/147 "2009-01-17T01:10:37Z")
A far better miracle, after all, would be one where the plane didn’t have to go down prematurely in the first place; where, in fact, the flight simply continued smoothly as planned. But, pragmatic evaluations aside, I suppose that isn’t really impressive enough… ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/148 "2009-01-17T01:38:39Z")
> [@groo](#): > > They’re **air kittens**. love it! the way the news is reporting it makes it seem like the “air kittens” are out looking for planes to “strike”. both are in the sky and one doesn’t file a flight plan. there have been close calls with planes that file flight plans, let alone feathered beings that will flit about willy nilly without telling a soul. and don’t forget that some of these air kittens nearly started a nuclear war when they showed up on radar. hhhhmmmm, perhaps it isn’t far fetched that they are aiming for us. they want the skies back and they want them back now! ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/149 "2009-01-17T01:58:20Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > The crash was in New York. Some “capitalizing individuals” probably found a way to steal it overnight. A damaged jet engine isn’t worth that much as a whole but it is worth a lot of money once it is stripped for parts in a chop shop. 🙂 Top quality steel and titanium? You bet! ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/150 "2009-01-17T02:16:36Z")
> [@Evil\_One](#): > > As has been stated before, the pilot deserves all the praise he gets. But the other points above are relevant as well. In large measure, those people survived because of the advanced society in the United States. We may have our faults…but the roots of the successful rescue run deep. Starting with the people who designed the airplane, the training regimen to fly it, the flight simulators, the Air Force training of Sullenberger and everything that went into all those factors played a part. As did the training and professionalism of the flight crew, boat captains, first responders and medical personnel. Even the quick and heroic actions of passengers and ordinary citizens that have yet to to be told can be credited to the fact that they live in a country where they can be educated and trained in independent thought and action. > > We as a people are greater than the sum of our parts. I’m thankful every day to live here. Eh… an Airbus, as in designed and built in Europe. Credit where credit is due. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/151 "2009-01-17T02:34:25Z")
Apologies if this has been mentioned before and I mised it, but BBC has been saying this is the first-ever water landing of a large aircraft with no fatalities. They’ve also been showing video footage of an Ethiopian airliner of similar size that was hijacked last year, ran out of fuel and was forced to make a similar water landing. It breaks apart immediately, just disintegrates, killing most people on board. Yikes! ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/152 "2009-01-17T03:05:57Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Apologies if this has been mentioned before and I mised it, but BBC has been saying this is the first-ever water landing of a large aircraft with no fatalities. Ah, they obviously don’t read Wikipedia, or The Straight Dope Message Board. From post #59: > [@](#): > > On 21 August 1963, an Aeroflot Tupolev Tu-124 ditched into the Neva River after running out of fuel. The aircraft floated and was towed to shore by a tugboat which it had nearly hit as it came down on the water. The tug rushed to the floating aircraft and pulled it with its passengers near to the shore where the passengers disembarked onto the tug; all 52 on board escaped without injuries.[11] The survival rate was 100% > > In October 1956, Pan Am Flight 943 (a Boeing 377) ditched northeast of Hawaii, after losing two of its four engines. The aircraft was able to circle around USCGC Pontchartrain until daybreak, when it ditched; all 31 on board survived.[12][13] The survival rate was 100%. I find it interesting that this is getting attention outside North America (I saw several posts from Canadians in this thread). Cool. > [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > They’ve also been showing video footage of an Ethiopian airliner of similar size that was hijacked last year, ran out of fuel and was forced to make a similar water landing. It breaks apart immediately, just disintegrates, killing most people on board. Yikes! That was horrible. The pilots tried so hard to save the passengers by staying close to shore, and might have made a decent landing, if the hijackers hadn’t freaked (they didn’t believe that the plane was out of fuel) and started fighting for physical control of the plane with the pilot. The plane tilted just enough so that the wingtip caught the water, and that was it. Cartwheel, breakup, crash. The plane was so close to shore that bathers waded out to help the survivors. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/153 "2009-01-17T03:15:30Z")
This is getting attention the world over. It deserves it, too! Thanks. Missed that post. And BBC must have missed Wikipedia. But actually, they’ve stopped claiming that now, so maybe someone clued them in. They just showed that Ethiopian-airliner clip again. That was 12 years ago, not last year. ---
**Author:** ![Improvisor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/50afbb/32.png) [@Improvisor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Improvisor)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/154 "2009-01-17T05:04:55Z")
Speaking of Wikipedia… Sully already has his own [page](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesley_Sullenberger). ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/155 "2009-01-17T05:13:04Z")
> [@Improvisor](#): > > Speaking of Wikipedia… > > Sully already has his own [page](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesley_Sullenberger). That is very impressive. I guess Superman is a real guy after all. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/156 "2009-01-17T05:49:07Z")
With regard to what they should do with the plane– Some people upthread suggest that it might be put back into service. Gosh, I hope not! All this discussion here and in other places about how hard on a plane a water landing is makes me think that the airframe has been subject to some very unusual stresses. We basically know what planes go through in normal use, and can estimate service life and all that. A crash landing is way outside of normal, and I think it would be much better to take it out of service. Besides, it would scare the hell out of people! But I do have a plan for what to do with the plane: 1. Sully gets to choose a piece as a souvenir. 2. A piece of the plane is goes to the Air & Space museum. It would make a cool exhibit. 3. Some of the metal from the plane gets melted down and formed into two modest markers, one for either side of the river at the crash site. The markers will be engraved with a description of what happened. 4. Some more of the metal gets melted down and transformed into the aforementioned Presidential Medals of Badass Coolness. 5. Have the rest of the metal cast into little good-luck charms, and sell 'em. That should generate enough revenue to save the whole economy. ---
**Author:** ![atomicbadgerrace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@atomicbadgerrace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atomicbadgerrace)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/157 "2009-01-17T06:28:17Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > In that heavily populated area, during the day, with video cams as common as they are, I’m surprised there isn’t video of the landing. [Here ya go](http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-183256). Not the best shot by any means, and contact seems to have been made just outside the frame, but better than nothing. You can truly get a feel of how quickly the evacuation proceeded-- by the time the camera zooms in, people are already unloading onto the wings. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/158 "2009-01-17T12:39:15Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > Some people upthread suggest that it might be put back into service. Gosh, I hope not! All this discussion here and in other places about how hard on a plane a water landing is makes me think that the airframe has been subject to some very unusual stresses. We basically know what planes go through in normal use, and can estimate service life and all that. A crash landing is way outside of normal, and I think it would be much better to take it out of service. It depends on what damage occurred. There was at least one large airplane that ditched in the Pacific that was repaired and returned to service with no further incident. I’ll let the experts determine whether or not that airplane can fly again rather than making a guess. ---
**Author:** ![puppygod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@puppygod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puppygod)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/159 "2009-01-17T14:08:28Z")
> [@atomicbadgerrace](#): > > [Here ya go](http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-183256). Not the best shot by any means, and contact seems to have been made just outside the frame, but better than nothing. You can truly get a feel of how quickly the evacuation proceeded-- by the time the camera zooms in, people are already unloading onto the wings. Holy shit! That’s impressive. It was like, not even five minutes from plane touching water to first passenger loaded onto ferry. Now, no nutjob can claim it’s government conspiracy - there is no way government could pull any plan as efficiently as this. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/160 "2009-01-17T14:14:04Z")
> [@puppygod](#): > > Holy shit! That’s impressive. It was like, not even five minutes from plane touching water to first passenger loaded onto ferry. Now, no nutjob can claim it’s government conspiracy - there is no way government could pull any plan as efficiently as this. Here’s a mental exercise for you. Try to figure out what the conspiracy theorists WILL say about this event, because they will. You can bet that some broken cashew will twist it into unbelievable claims. And remember, those were supposedly Canadian geese, so we obviously have to invade Canada. And we’ll have to hurry before Bush leaves office. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493.md?page=9)