# Air Bus Down in the Hudson River **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 15, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493 "2009-01-15T21:05:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/161 "2009-01-17T18:15:25Z")
> [@atomicbadgerrace](#): > > [Here ya go](http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-183256). Not the best shot by any means, and contact seems to have been made just outside the frame, but better than nothing. You can truly get a feel of how quickly the evacuation proceeded-- by the time the camera zooms in, people are already unloading onto the wings. Many thanks for posting that. Amazing how quickly the ferry got there - although I can imagine that was the longest five minutes ever for the folks standing on the wing, especially for the couple of people who fell off the wing into the water. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/162 "2009-01-17T18:49:49Z")
Great video, thanks! I notice it’s a Coast Guard video. If anyone reads/hears anything about the backstory of this video, please share with us. I’m picturing some poor Coast Guard schlub sitting at a desk surrounded by a dozen security video screens, bored to tears, when suddenly he notices something in the water on the one pointing out across the river. That’s when he zooms in to get a closer look, not believing what he’s seeing. He might be the guy who scrambled the Coast Guard helicopters and divers. By the way, nice zoom focus too. > [@Musicat](#): > > Here’s a mental exercise for you. Try to figure out what the conspiracy theorists WILL say about this event, because they will. You can bet that some broken cashew will twist it into unbelievable claims. [freeperthink]IT WAS LEFTY LOONEY LIBERAL 'RAT PLOT TO TAKE ATTENTION AWAY FROM OUR BELOVED GEORGE BUSH’S FINAL SPEECH!!![/freeperthink] Oh now I have to go wash my brain out with soap. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/163 "2009-01-17T19:22:32Z")
I just found out that my cousin’s father-in-law was on the plane. He’s doing fine, even made it home that night. His wife apparently watched much of the news broadcast without knowing he was on it, because he’d adjusted his travel plans at the last minute. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/164 "2009-01-17T22:27:40Z")
Hugh Laurie on bird strikes: “This, rather unfairly in my view, made it sound as if it was the bird’s fault; as if the little feathered chap had deliberately tried to head-butt twenty tons of metal travelling in the opposite direction at just under the speed of sound, out of sheer spite.” ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/165 "2009-01-17T23:36:33Z")
[Here](http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/01/17/usair.splash.video/index.html) are several videos of touchdown (all from more or less the same place). ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/166 "2009-01-17T23:52:03Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > [Here](http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/01/17/usair.splash.video/index.html) are several videos of touchdown (all from more or less the same place). Wow! Although none of those views show the entire sequence from first water hit to full stop, it looks like it took less than 5 seconds (~150MPH-\>0?), and couldn’t have been squarer, factors that undoubtedly contributed to the passengers’ survival. That’s a faster landing than on a carrier with an arresting cable. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/167 "2009-01-18T01:55:40Z")
Dang. It looks so smooth it’s almost like it was meant to happen like that. Maybe they should start thinking about using the Hudson to relieve some of the pressure and congestion from JFK and LaGuardia during busy periods. 😉 joking is okay because nobody got kilt ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/168 "2009-01-18T02:38:42Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Dang. It looks so smooth it’s almost like it was meant to happen like that. Maybe they should start thinking about using the Hudson to relieve some of the pressure and congestion from JFK and LaGuardia during busy periods. > > 😉 joking is okay because nobody got kilt Don’t forget the poor geese, murdered by criminal negligence of the pilot. I’m sure PETA will have some kind of memorial service. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/169 "2009-01-18T05:59:21Z")
Wow, a doper who knew somebody on the plane! Thanks for letting us know **Jenaroph**. **Scissorjack** , funny Hugh Laurie quote, thanks. Thanks for the extra videos **fachverwirrt**. > [@gaffa](#): > > Many thanks for posting that. Amazing how quickly the ferry got there - although I can imagine that was the longest five minutes ever for the folks standing on the wing, especially for the couple of people who fell off the wing into the water. Yeah, watching that video, there are a couple of heart-stopping moments. First when the guy falls into the water, then when the first ferry is on the way and at first I’m thinking, yay, the ferry’s getting there, but then as it gets closer and closer you look at the people on the wings and the people in the raft, and the front of the ferry on what looks like a collision course and it looks like it’s going to smash into the people on the raft, and cause most of the people on the wing to be jolted into the water. Holy shit! It turned out alright but I have no idea how. The people on the raft must have been freaking, thinking they were going to be overrun by the ferry. Even though I know everyone came out alright I still get goosebumps when I see that. Then it’s surreal when you see the plane pushing the ferry, which obviously had cut all power. Here’s an article where we get the first words from Sully. [Pilot landed in Hudson to avoid ‘catastrophic consequences’](http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/01/17/hudson.plane.crash/index.html) > [@](#): > > The pilot who landed a crippled US Airways jetliner on the Hudson River thought there would have been “catastrophic consequences” if he tried to make it to a nearby airport, a National Transportation Safety Board official said Saturday night. > > Instead, pilot Pilot C.B. “Sully” Sullenberger decided to ditch the plane in the Hudson River close to vessels moving about the water “to improve chances of recovery,” NTSB board member Kitty Higgins said. It was the first time the public heard comments from Sullenberger and first officer Jeffrey B. Skiles describing Thursday’s emergency landing. > > Skiles was flying US Airways Flight 1549, bound for Charlotte, North Carolina, when he noticed a flock of birds less than 90 seconds after the plane had taken off from New York’s LaGuardia International Airport, Higgins said. > > In an instant, the plane was rocked by loud thuds and both engines went out, Higgins said. > > “He commented on the formation, and he said the next thing he knew, the windscreen was filled with birds. There was no time to take evasive action,” Higgins said. > > Sullenberger took control of the aircraft while Skiles began complicated procedures to try to restart the engines, Higgins said. > > Sullenberger thought the plane was moving “too low, too slow” to risk returning to LaGuardia through the maze of buildings. Nor did Sullenberger think the powerless aircraft could make it over the densely populated New Jersey area to Teterboro, Higgins said. > > “There could be catastrophic consequences if we didn’t make it,” she quoted Sullenberger as saying. > > … > > Earlier in the day, the NTSB revealed the content of communications between the cockpit and controllers at LaGuardia in the brief period during which the incident unfolded. > > “This is cactus 1549, hit birds, we lost thrust in both engines,” Sullenberger told controllers at approximately 3:27 p.m. Thursday. “We’re turning back towards LaGuardia.” > > Controllers immediately began preparations to clear a runway for an emergency landing, but less than a minute later, Sullenberger reported that the aircraft wouldn’t make it, Higgins said. > > The last communication from the plane to controllers, Higgins said, was the pilot saying, “We’re gonna be in the Hudson.” > > Higgins also quoted two of the flight’s attendants, who were in jump seats at the front of the aircraft when they heard a loud thud shortly after takeoff. > > “It was a sound that neither one of them had ever heard before,” Higgins said. “They said all the engine noise ceased. They described it as complete silence, like a library.” > > … Apparently the plane is now out of the water, but I haven’t seen photos or the video that’s mentioned yet. > [@](#): > > Efforts to raise the jetliner from the river proved successful late Saturday, as cranes lifted it clear of the water about 11:30 p.m. ET following several hours of work by crews in frigid conditions. > > Video from the scene showed the right side of the aircraft with the engine intact but its covering mangled. It was not clear visually whether the damage was from an in-flight incident or from the landing impact. > > Investigators planned to tow the plane on a barge to an undisclosed location for their examination. Video Watch water wash over the plane » > > Searchers using sonar think they have found the left engine on the river bottom. Divers will try to confirm the finding, Higgins said. > > … Also a couple of 911 calls have been released. There are links in the body of that article, near the bottom. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/170 "2009-01-18T06:21:53Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Also a couple of 911 calls have been released. There are links in the body of that article, near the bottom. “Please wait until the plane has come to a complete stop at the pier before turning on any electronic devices.” ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/171 "2009-01-18T08:49:06Z")
There are a few photos [here](http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-184457) and [here](http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Most-Viewed-Photos/ss/1778;_ylt=An5mtGICMsgrpBzpNx8V3AsFO7gF) of the lifting of the plane, and a [news story](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/plane_splashdown). Look at those chunks of ice and the mangled wing. Surprising to see one engine still attached. I thought both had been broken off on landing. Still haven’t found a video. There’s a nice little [story here](http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/37719984.html) (scroll down) about the co-pilot, Jeff Skiles. He went back into the plane to get life jackets for people on the wing. Tidbit: the second ferry boat to arrive was piloted by a woman. I thought that was cool, especially when you see in that Coast Guard video her maneuvering to turn the boat around to go backwards, while keeping up with the plane and the current. A masterful job. I saw a video interview with her on Campbell Brown. From earlier in the thread: [QUOTE=Kalhoun] Uugghhh…that footage of that woman slipping off the ropes and back into the water. I shudder when I think of it [/QUOTE] I never did see this footage. Does anyone have a link? I wouldn’t ask if she had died, that would be ghoulish, but we know she’s ok. Sully’s [first interview](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/17/today-shows-chesley-sully_n_158822.html) will be with Matt Lauer, Monday morning on the Today show. Three people I’m curious to hear from, so please post links if anyone sees anything, are first, the guy who slipped off the wing and fell in the water, the guy who risked falling off too by helping the first guy back up onto the wing, and a grinning, jubilant black guy with corn rows who was high-fiving the entire world as he got off the ferry. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/172 "2009-01-18T09:11:45Z")
More and bigger photos of the intact plane [here](http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3695568), and [here](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/19/nyregion/19blackbox.html?_r=1&hp). The black boxes are on their way to Washington. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/173 "2009-01-18T11:15:34Z")
Sorry for all the posts in a row. I’m not quite as obsessed with this as I seem. Well, I guess I kinda am, it’s so fascinating. Here’s [a new article with more details](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090118/ap_on_re_us/plane_splashdown_cockpit_drama). It seems they didn’t use that ditching switch after all, so the plane floated without any extra help. It had been reported that one of the flight attendants broke both her legs, but that article makes it seems as if the flight attendant did not break her legs at all, just cut it. There’s a link on that page to a video of the retrieval, but it wouldn’t work for me. It stopped after the ad. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/174 "2009-01-18T12:46:07Z")
Yes, like I thought the left engine was ripped off. Also that plane is not flying again. Too much damage to the wings and fuselage; not to speak of being submerged for a couple days. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/175 "2009-01-18T12:50:17Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > It had been reported that one of the flight attendants broke both her legs, but that article makes it seems as if the flight attendant did not break her legs at all, just cut it. The broken leg story may have come from Mayor Bloomberg. I watched his press conference live, and at one point he was asked if any of the crew had been injured. He looked towards the representative of US Airways (I think) who said that one of the flight attendants had gashed her leg, but Bloomberg obviously misheard and said into the mike that one of the attendants had broken her leg. It just goes to show how easily details can become confused. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/176 "2009-01-18T13:28:37Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > Yes, like I thought the left engine was ripped off. Also that plane is not flying again. Too much damage to the wings and fuselage; not to speak of being submerged for a couple days. It is my understanding that the engines are intended to come off if sufficient force in applied in the correct area. This is important for ditchings, for the same reason the pilot landed gear-up. You see, when landing gear dips down into the water first it tends to stop, or at least slow down a great deal, because water is hundreds of times more dense than air and offers more resistance. The result is a tendency for the airplane to pivot around the stopped part and go nose-down into the drink. At best, this would complicate evacuation. More realistically, it would make getting out before drowning nearly impossible and also impose stresses on the airplane making the fuselage more likely to break into several pieces. This would also complicate evacuation, would render the airplane unfloatable. Anyone who saw people standing on the airplane in freezing weather above chill water can figure out why a floating airplane is superior to a sinking one in this situation. Therefore, in a water landing it is best to land gear-up. Likewise, the engine, being slung under the wings, will also have a tendency to dip into the water first, becoming a pivot for the fuselage. While clearly strong enough to withstand the normal forces imposed by flight, by making them “break away” in such circumstances the engine can stop, depart the aircraft, and the main fuselage can then continue forward, without pivoting, along the surface of the water, which is where you want to be, on the surface. The explanation may be as simple as that the pilot brought her down _so_ gently that “break away” force never occurred on the right side, therefore the engine remained attached. Yes, the left is gone - if the left engine dipped just a fraction of a second before the right (not unlikely - keeping such an aircraft 100% level is unlikely although clearly it was level enough to survive the landing) then it might have absorbed more force, enough to break away, dissipating some of the aircraft’s energy at contact so that the right wing received less force. I wish to caution everyone that the above is purely armchair speculation and I am not a member of the NTSB nor an expert in plane crash analysis. Opinion subject to change without notice upon receipt of more facts. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/177 "2009-01-18T15:09:03Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > Yes, like I thought the left engine was ripped off. Also that plane is not flying again. Too much damage to the wings and fuselage; not to speak of being submerged for a couple days. Even if the plane were repairable, there is far too much extremely valuable data locked up in it to allow it to be repaired. Airbus and Boeing et al have an invaluable opportunity to learn a great deal about the stresses of a water landing and how best to construct airliners to be more survivable in these situations. Once the NTSB is done, I’m sure that the plane will be studied very carefully to see which components failed the way they were supposed to, which didn’t, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/178 "2009-01-19T04:19:40Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > It is my understanding that the engines are intended to come off if sufficient force in applied in the correct area. This is important for ditchings, for the same reason the pilot landed gear-up. Yes, BBC is indicating that the other engine NOT falling off like it was supposed to was a mistake. I’m sure they’ll be studying that, too. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/179 "2009-01-19T04:59:52Z")
FWIW, you’re dead right in every word, **Broomstick** - that’s a certification requirement under either FAR 25 or an advisory circular, I’m not sure which. But it’s been pretty much theoretical until now. AFAICT, this is also the first ditching of a large aircraft in smooth water. It doesn’t take much wave height to overcome all that nice theory about what hits when, and instead force the use of words like cartwheel, submarining, and breakup. **Gorsnak** ’s observation about the engineering data in that aircraft is dead on. We can only hope that the process of freeing the plane from the Battery Park City pier didn’t obscure too much damage, and that the bird-strike and ditching damage can be sufficiently distinguished. We can also hope that Airbus makes those findings public in the interest of safety = and I’m sure they will, if the lawyers can be adequately fended off. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493/180 "2009-01-19T05:16:51Z")
All the technical talk is fascinating to me too. Thanks everyone! I have a question about the “black boxes” (I know they’re [actually orange](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_data_recorderhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_data_recorder)). According to [this article](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123225944977193793.html#video%3D2E64F205-4E3D-41B0-94E4-EAA90DE44DBD%26articleTabs%3Darticle), > [@](#): > > Crews later retrieved the plane’s black boxes, which were filled with fresh water, packed into blue coolers and were to be sped immediately to Washington. Why filled with fresh water? I thought they were practically solid. How do you even put fresh water in them? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-bus-down-in-the-hudson-river/481493.md?page=10)