# Air Force 1 a Target? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 13, 2001, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-1-a-target/81235 "2001-09-13T02:10:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bernse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@bernse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bernse)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-1-a-target/81235/21 "2001-09-13T22:13:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pldennison \* > \*\*Air Force One is nothing more sophisticated than a Boeing 747. All that differentiates it from a standard 747 – aside from the obvious differences in internal build – are its communications equipment and its capacity for in-flight refueling. \*\* Not true. There are many classified features of the aircraft that nobody here knows about for sure. A NOVA special I watched said the only real things it has in common with a run-of-the-mill 747 is just its looks, but the AF of course wouldn’t comment on specifics. However, it is supposed to be well known that it has in addition to refueling and communication it has several self defense mechanisms as well. Chaff and flares certainly. God only knows what else. ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-1-a-target/81235/22 "2001-09-13T22:48:08Z")
Just because it was a dumb plan doesn’t necessarily mean they weren’t going to try it. I think terrorists are not necessarily smarter than average, just far, far more ruthless and fanatical. Besides, dumb plans can work if you’re lucky and your opponent isn’t expecting it. While I’m no fan of the President, I don’t think he’d lie about his reasons for not returning to DC [immediately.](http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/13/national/13PREX.html) Here’s what scares me: > [@](#): > > “Air Force One is next,” the official quoted the caller as saying. The threat was accompanied by code words **that indicated knowledge of White House procedures,** the official said. How the hell did they learn White House procedures? ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-1-a-target/81235/23 "2001-09-13T23:21:43Z")
That was what Safire was worried about. He has hypothesized that there is a mole inside the White House, which seems pretty scary. ---
**Author:** ![Tejota](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Tejota](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tejota)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-1-a-target/81235/24 "2001-09-13T23:47:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BobT \* > \*\*That was what Safire was worried about. He has hypothesized that there is a mole inside the White House, which seems pretty scary. \*\* More likely the White house feels that they needed to embellish the threat to AF1 to appear more credible in order to justify Bush’s lack of visibility on Tues. > [@](#): > > _jab1 said:_ > While I’m no fan of the President, I don’t think he’d lie about his reasons for not returning to DC immediately. Agreed, but that doesn’t mean that Ari or Carl wouldn’t tell lies on his behalf. Remember, Bush himself hasn’t said a word on this issue. In this particular situation, who knows? It certainly doesn’t seem to fit in with the rest of the facts. I’m inclined to think that **Ned** has the right of it. This little detail was embellishment rather than literal truth. Bush certainly had the power to overrule anyone and go back to the White House. He is the president after all. It’s reported that Kennedy did exactly that during the Cuban Missile crisis. The fact that Bush didn’t says something about his character and the nature of his relationship with his handlers. It’s reported that Bush wanted to go back to the White House, and that he _didn’t get his way_. Regardless of how wise you think the decision to go to the White House is, the fact that he didn’t win that argument is not encouraging. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2001, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-1-a-target/81235/25 "2001-09-14T00:01:38Z")
**TEjota** - you do recall, don’t you, that I’m not a Bush fan. But you can’t really expect us to believe that you have certain knowledge of an alledged conversation between Bush, the SS and his advisors, now do you? (and, by the way, for the scenario of AF1 being a target, one would have to have a realistic plan, jab. See, if it’s not a realistic plan, if it’s a dumb plan -even if they were gonna try it- it would mean it was a not, by definition ‘credible risk’. I could threaten to leap over Mt. Rushmore, you may even believe I’d try it, but the fact that it’s a stupid plan means that it’s not a credible risk) ---
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2001, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-1-a-target/81235/26 "2001-09-14T00:44:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ned \* > Zut, I agree with your comments. Whoops, my apologies; I misunderstood your point. I plead unclear antecedant. **wring** , I believe you may have missed where **Tejota** said, “it’s reported that…” If I may quote from the NY Times article linked to by **jab1** : > [@](#): > > Karl Rove, Mr. Bush’s adviser, said in an interview this morning that Mr. Bush had twice on Tuesday — in the morning and in the early afternoon — argued strenuously that he should return immediately to the capital. Mr. Rove reported that the Secret Service insisted that the situation here was “too dangerous, too unstable” for the president to come to Washington. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2001, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-1-a-target/81235/27 "2001-09-14T00:59:13Z")
Ok, I see what you mean, but. **Tejota** claims that it’s a case of “Bush didn’t get his way” and that would be a significant thing. However, another viable interpretation of the facts in the article are that the SS team wanted Bush out of DC. Bush wanted to go to DC the SS team was significantly persuasive and/or gave him additional facts that changed his mind. The implication that “Bush didn’t get his way” isn’t supported by the available data. It may be true, of course, but I doubt we’ll ever know for certain. (it’s the tone of the interpretation that I still object to. Keep in mind, I absolutely **hate** being in this position). ---
**Author:** ![Tejota](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Tejota](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tejota)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2001, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-1-a-target/81235/28 "2001-09-14T01:17:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > **Tejota** claims that it’s a case of “Bush didn’t get his way” and that would be a significant thing. As indicated by the fact that he didn’t go to the White House until the evening even though he is reported to have said (even argued) that he wanted to. ---
**Author:** ![Tejota](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Tejota](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tejota)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2001, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-1-a-target/81235/29 "2001-09-14T01:18:59Z")
Your interpretation **Wiring** fits available facts. Although I don’t believe that’s what was said in the article. ---
**Author:** ![Tejota](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Tejota](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tejota)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2001, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-1-a-target/81235/30 "2001-09-14T01:20:08Z")
That would be **Wring** no Wiring. (anyone want to guess what I do for a living???) ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2001, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-1-a-target/81235/31 "2001-09-14T01:32:04Z")
s’allright **Tejota** trust me, I’ve been called worse. 🙂 anyhow. I think it was prudent (to borrow dad’s term) for him to not be in DC for a minute. My personal take on how it played out is that young MR. Bush was mindful of how it would seem if he wasn’t in DC, but cooler and more logical heads prevailed. That would account for the quick releases of data re: the White house being targeted etc. However, again, if there was a call, and even if the caller said AF1 was a target, I still don’t see it as a ‘credible threat’ (which really doesn’t matter 'cause I think the White House itself was a credible one, and enough justification for keeping him out of town.). ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2001, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-1-a-target/81235/32 "2001-09-14T01:42:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zut \* > If I may quote from the NY Times article linked to by **jab1** : In the interests of accuracy, I’d like to point out that **Maeglin** posted the link first. ---
**Author:** ![Tejota](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Tejota](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tejota)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2001, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-1-a-target/81235/33 "2001-09-14T02:01:44Z")
It was prudent for Bush to not be in the White House. As I said before, Cheney was at the White House, so it was only good sense for Bush to be somewhere else until the danger passed. It never occurred to me that this was anything other than SOP until Ari started to spin. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-1-a-target/81235/34 "2001-09-18T23:16:26Z")
wring said: > [@](#): > > (and, by the way, for the scenario of AF1 being a target, one would have to have a realistic plan, jab. See, if it’s not a realistic plan, if it’s a dumb plan -even if they were gonna try it- it would mean it was a not, by definition ‘credible risk’. I could threaten to leap over Mt. Rushmore, you may even believe I’d try it, but the fact that it’s a stupid plan means that it’s not a credible risk) wring, what makes you think the terrorists told the Secret Service their plan? The phone call said AF1 is a target, but it didn’t say a target of what or how. It could have been another airliner, or maybe a SAM parked in the brush near Andrews waiting for the return. The Secret Service didn’t have the luxury of saying “we’ve only seen three airliners attack things, they must only be using hijacked airplanes, so the President is safe”. They had to go on (1) a warning call identifying it as a target, and (2) information from the caller indicating some level of information not available to the public about AF1 security issues. Given they didn’t know what they were protecting against and there was enough information to at least think there was an information leak somewhere, I would say that is a “credible risk”. I haven’t seen anything that proves that it’s all just spin. I am willing to concede the possibility it could be spin, but I don’t see it is supported. ---
**Author:** ![Ned](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/848f3c/32.png) [@Ned](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ned)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-1-a-target/81235/35 "2001-09-19T00:37:39Z")
[http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101010924/nfallout.html](http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101010924/nfallout.html) “Law-enforcement sources say the White House exaggerated the threat and put the Secret Service and other agencies in the position of having to back up a hyped story.” ---
**Author:** ![NaSultainne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8797f3/32.png) [@NaSultainne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NaSultainne)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-1-a-target/81235/36 "2001-09-19T02:29:09Z")
Oh, gee, now I’m convinced. Unnamed sources giving their version of events overrides the statements of the Vice President and the White House Press Secretary. Yeah, I always trust the ones who don’t show their faces. ---
**Author:** ![Freedom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Freedom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freedom)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2001, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-1-a-target/81235/37 "2001-09-20T15:39:36Z")
FYI… We happened to catch 9am -10am on Tivo. In response to the new thread about whether or not the networks should stop playing the tape over and over again, I went and watched that hour over again. I wanted to see how I felt re-living the moment. I’ll spare you the details of how I felt, but I did catch something interesting. As of 9:45am CBS was reporting that they had gotten a report from the secret service that they had received “credible” threats against the President, the Whitehouse and the Capitol. So this story started to unfold fairly early in the day. If you want a cite, then stop on by my house and I’ll play you the tape:) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-1-a-target/81235.md?page=1)