# Air Force Honor Guard and Biden **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 15, 2023, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-honor-guard-and-biden/990186 "2023-09-15T23:31:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Disinfectus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/disinfectus/32/11085_2.png) [@Disinfectus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disinfectus)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-honor-guard-and-biden/990186/1 "2023-09-15T23:31:33Z")
There is a meme going around that purports to show that the Marine Honor Guard wasn’t present at the ramp to Air Force One when Biden left India for the G20 Summit, suggesting that they disrespected him. I suspect the Honor Guard wouldn’t be present during a departure from a foreign country, but can’t seem to find anything that backs that up. The meme also stated that it was US Marines that dissed the President, but I thought it was the Air Force that provided that honor. Please set me straight, Straight Dope? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-honor-guard-and-biden/990186/2 "2023-09-15T23:40:23Z")
There is no way a military unit (especially an Honor Guard) could/would pull such a thing and the only source that it happened is a meme. ---
**Author:** ![Disinfectus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/disinfectus/32/11085_2.png) [@Disinfectus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disinfectus)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-honor-guard-and-biden/990186/3 "2023-09-15T23:45:52Z")
I understand that, but my question was, is there any honor guard even present when a US President is traveling from one foreign country to another. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-honor-guard-and-biden/990186/4 "2023-09-15T23:57:56Z")
Indeed, I imagine the headline would read “former Air Force honor guard” if there were an inkling of truth to the tale. ---
**Author:** ![Disinfectus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/disinfectus/32/11085_2.png) [@Disinfectus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disinfectus)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2023, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-honor-guard-and-biden/990186/5 "2023-09-16T00:00:45Z")
For the record, I’m in no way suggesting that I believe that nonsense. But it did make me curious as to what the actual protocol is. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2023, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-honor-guard-and-biden/990186/6 "2023-09-16T00:06:05Z")
For the record, posting a nasty rumor then claiming that the nasty rumor has nothing to do with the actual question might not sit well with some. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2023, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-honor-guard-and-biden/990186/7 "2023-09-16T00:28:14Z")
[Moderating] There’s a factual question here. Make an attempt to answer it, or leave the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2023, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-honor-guard-and-biden/990186/8 "2023-09-16T00:31:16Z")
From [Non-Deployable Air Force Jobs | Work - Chron.com](https://work.chron.com/nondeployable-air-force-jobs-25231.html) “The Honor Guard generally doesn’t deploy, but members on occasion can be deployed on an individual basis, given the need. This is a change from the honor guard’s history, when the unit was considered a “controlled tour” and thus completely non-deployable.” ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2023, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-honor-guard-and-biden/990186/9 "2023-09-16T00:32:36Z")
A casual look at YouTube shows many videos of Biden getting on or off Air Force One\*. Seldom do I see more than one person in a military uniform (and I’m guessing that’s an aide) at the bottom of the staircase. \*Those videos are often edited to make Biden look bad, but I think they prove the President does not travel with an Honor Guard wherever he goes. ---
**Author:** ![Disinfectus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/disinfectus/32/11085_2.png) [@Disinfectus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disinfectus)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2023, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-honor-guard-and-biden/990186/10 "2023-09-16T00:43:58Z")
Thank you. I’m trying to debunk this garbage elsewhere with facts. Asking in this forum seemed the best way to do that, since I was unable to find the information (that you provided) on my own. I only offered the backstory as context for my question, not to offend anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2023, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-honor-guard-and-biden/990186/11 "2023-09-16T01:25:18Z")
It seems Biden is using the shorter stairs to get on Air Force One. He may not want a detail at the bottom drawing attention to that. Just guessing about the latter… I do not think military personnel get to diss anybody no matter their political leanings. If your job is to be at those stairs then you are at those stairs. I’d think that might be a detail they seek out so, if you do not like the president, you probably don’t seek out that detail. > **[Why Biden is now routinely taking the short stairs up to Air Force One](https://www.npr.org/2023/08/31/1196803354/biden-air-force-one-short-stairs)** > > The built-in stairs lead to the belly of the plane. They're less photogenic than the tall, outdoor steps. But the sturdier stairs pose less of a health and political risk to the 80-year-old president. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-honor-guard-and-biden/990186/12 "2023-09-17T16:55:43Z")
> [@Disinfectus](#): > > I’m trying to debunk this garbage elsewhere with facts. Have fun storming the castle! In case you didn’t already realize this, the people who you’re attempting to correct reject facts and substitute their own bizarro-world reality, so this is a losing proposition. But enjoy fighting the good fight, if you can. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-honor-guard-and-biden/990186/13 "2023-09-17T18:04:39Z")
It’s not clear what claim is being made, but I would say that it’s up to whoever is making the claim to provide evidence that a certain protocol _should_ have been followed. Was this when Biden departed or arrived in _India_? If so, no US military other than flight crew would have been involved, as it would have been up to the host nation to provide honors. Was this when Biden _departed_ Andrews AFB? The [Air Force Honor Guard manual](https://www.honorguard.af.mil/Portals/21/images/Base-Honor-Guard/2016%20BHG%20MANUAL.pdf) does not dictate when rifle cordons are required. Base honor guards are required to adhere to [AFI 34-1201](https://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/saf_ds/publication/afi34-1201/afi34-1201.pdf), which states: > **11.3. Minimizing Frequency of Ceremonial Honors.** > 11.3.1. Formal welcoming ceremonies, when planned by appropriate authority for specific > purposes, are always appropriate when they are instrumental in improving morale or > maintaining national prestige. > 11.3.2. In the interest of economy and manning, parades, honor cordons, motorcades, and > other ceremonial aspects, which involve large number of personnel and equipment, will be > held to an absolute minimum when officials entitled to such honors visit military > installations. (T-1). In general, full honors will be reserved for statutory appointees and > general or flag officers of the military services, for foreign dignitaries, and for occasions > when ceremonies promote international good will. It is the prerogative of the commander to > determine types of honors to be rendered. (T-1). Departure ceremonies may be appropriate, but a president leaving from Andrews AFB has not typically been treated as such. In short, based on the above, forcing the Andrews base honor guard to suit up every time the president jumps on a plane is antithetical to maintaining morale. This is like waving goodbye to your spouse as they leave for a business trip, not saying goodbye to old friends who have been staying with you for a week. I have no idea why the Marine honor guard would be involved in this at all. In short, it’s going to be hard to provide proof because nothing says that an honor guard cordon is required every time POTUS boards air force one. Make someone show you something that says that. ---
**Author:** ![Disinfectus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/disinfectus/32/11085_2.png) [@Disinfectus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disinfectus)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-honor-guard-and-biden/990186/14 "2023-09-17T21:38:34Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > In case you didn’t already realize this, the people who you’re attempting to correct reject facts and substitute their own bizarro-world reality, so this is a losing proposition. Oh, I realize it. But every once in a while, it’s possible to at least reach the fence sitters. ---
**Author:** ![Disinfectus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/disinfectus/32/11085_2.png) [@Disinfectus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disinfectus)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-honor-guard-and-biden/990186/15 "2023-09-17T21:40:15Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Was this when Biden departed or arrived in _India_? I mentioned in the OP that Biden was leaving India for the G20 Summit. Thank you for the additional information. Appreciated! ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-honor-guard-and-biden/990186/16 "2023-09-17T22:06:11Z")
But the G20 summit was _in_ India, no? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-honor-guard-and-biden/990186/17 "2023-09-17T22:54:50Z")
Surely he had to leave before he could arrive? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-honor-guard-and-biden/990186/18 "2023-09-17T23:04:27Z")
Left Andrews AFB to arrive in New Delhi, yes. I’m not sure how to parse “leaving India for the G20” unless I’m very much confused about something. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-honor-guard-and-biden/990186/19 "2023-09-17T23:06:56Z")
I was kidding, actually. Though I found a YouTube video of the POTUS departing New Delhi for Vietnam, and saw only a sole (Air Force, think) officer saluting him at the bottom of the staircase. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-honor-guard-and-biden/990186/20 "2023-09-17T23:12:30Z")
I wonder if that’s what the people in the OP were talking about. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-force-honor-guard-and-biden/990186.md?page=2)