Air Force One - control and mission statement

And Presidents have flown on commercial airliners, in the past (mostly as a publicity stunt). The Secret Service really doesn’t like it, but ultimately, it’s not their decision to make.

Nixon did it just once, as MEB’s link shows.

Presumably it would be no different to any senior officer deciding he wanted to defect, and ordering his subordinates to take him to the territory of the power he wanted to defect to.

Is there anything in the UMCJ to cover such an eventuality? (the American officer corps has some “form” in that area after all :slight_smile: )

With any other senior officer, the subordinates could confirm the order with that officer’s superiors. But the President has no superiors.

And the crew can’t assume that defection is the President’s reason for ordering the trip.

But the flight probably did last for longer than 20 minutes. (And did not wind up in the Marianas Trench.)

Would the 25th Amendment actually apply? The POTUS has made a perfectly sane rational, informed, decision that he needs to GTFO and flee to Russia, before he’s impeached and sent to prison. He’s not insane or otherwise incapable of discharging his duties, just a traitor.

If he moves into a dacha (sp?) on the Black Sea, we will be “unable to discharge his duties”.

I was just thinking this. Until the impeachment is finalized does anything make his orders to pardon Aldrich Ames and transfer the contents of the CIA Moscow dept records to the FSB illegal?

We certainly won’t, but Mike Pence presumably will.

Why would that be? The POTUS doesn’t stop being POTUS when he’s overseas. And he’s not insane or otherwise incapable, so the 25th Amendment doesn’t apply.

Until the impeachment works it way through the various channels he’s still POTUS, right?

Nitpick: He’s POTUS through the impeachment by the House, and after. Impeachment is just an indictement. He’s gotta be convicted by the Senate to be removed from office (and thus no longer be POTUS). Remember, Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton were both impeached but held their office after the Senate failed to convict.

Should Trump immediately try to fly to the Russia, a strong case could be made that he is “shirking his duties as POTUS and/or absconding from his responsibilities.” Then it’s a Cabinet/Congressional political procedure to invoke the 25th Amendment and make VPOTUS the Acting President.

Of note, there are multiple aircraft (well, two, really) that are currently capable of being used as the ‘traditional’ Air Force One. As others have noted, “Air Force One” is just a callsign used by whatever aircraft is hosting the POTUS. IIRC, Ford allowed Nixon to use a VC-25 to travel back to California after resignation, but that used a SAAM (Special Airlift Assignment Mission) callsign during that particular flight.

What has only lightly been touched on in this thread is the logistics and support aircraft that fly along with the POTUS on missions, both OCONUS and CONUS. When I worked the DNC in '12 for the Secret Service, I happened to pass through the Charlotte airport and counted no less than four C-17s; one of which was loading “the Beast” (his ground transportation limousine). The others carried fuel, spare parts, Secret Service professional gear, aides, etc. I could say the same when Bush came to Bagram in '06 when I was there, but the POTUS support airlift C-17s were indistinguishable from the other dozen C-17s on the ramp at BAF. This also doesn’t count the refueling, fighter, and C2 aircraft that fly along with “the package.”

So, as Stranger and others pointed out, the resources poured into moving just the VC-25 is enormous. That doesn’t factor in all of the other resources thrown at the logistical airlift to support that one VC-25. POTUS flying a simple trip overseas isn’t as simple as throwing a tent, sleeping bag, and beer cooler into the back of a truck for a weekend trip to the lake. [sub]an oversimplification, I know. . .[/sub].

One thing I’d also bring up, is overflight and landing clearances for POTUS on a “whimsical overseas trip.” Not a big deal in the CONUS, but the State Department and FAA have to pre-coordinate non-commercial government flights to foreign airports. I suspect it would cause major international/diplomatic problems should Air Force One arrive on an approach control radar screen without some prior coordination. The VC-25 is ostensibly a civilian aircraft (carrying civilian leadership on diplomatic missions) may have luck with a surprise request to land, but all of the military support aircraft (cargo, refueling, and fighter support) would have a far more difficult time. During Operation El Dorado Canyon, armed fighters were denied overflight of France/Spain to bomb Libya in '86. And that was a planned and coordinated action.

POTUS just arriving in another nation’s airspace without so much as a “Hey, howdy!” beforehand? That’ll be difficult for the recieving country too . . . There’s no guarantee that the recipient country would allow landing privileges.

Tripler
“Air Force One, go around. Permission denied.”

The complete text of Section 4 of the Twenty-fifth Amendment:

Nothing in there about “insane” or “unreasonable” or anything like that. Just “the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide” (that is, “the Cabinet”) make a written declaration that the President “is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office”. This in turn is ultimately subject to confirmation (or dis-confirmation) by two-thirds of both Houses of Congress. The whole thing is (like impeachment by the House, and then trial in the Senate) more a political process than a legal one, let alone a medical or psychiatric process. “Defected to Russia” renders the President “unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office” if the Vice President and a majority of the Cabinet say it does; if the President himself disagrees, in writing (“I can totally still be President from my new dacha!”), but two-thirds of both Houses of Congress agree with the Vice President and Cabinet (presumably in that case a formal impeachment, trial, conviction, and removal would quickly follow, making the Vice President not merely “Acting President” but full President of the United States), then at that point the ex-POTUS can just sit in his new dacha and sulk (or tweet).

But the 25th Amendment says nothing about shirking or absconding. It says “incapable” (and is clearly intended to handle cases of illness or injury, not defection)

Imagine he’d be met in Moscow by a band, vodka, and whatever the equivalent in Russia is of hero of soviet union. Also probably a promotion to be FSB Field Marshall.

Well presumably he could still appeal to the supreme court from his dacha. Given the fact he is quite capable of discharging the powers and duties (and the fact the intention of the amendment is clearly to formalize transfer of power in the event of death or injury of the POTUS) I imagine he’d have a pretty good chance of winning.

True, it doesn’t, but the mere fact of abandoning the office and its duties clearly demonstrates the inability to discharge the duties of the Office. It’s not specifically enumerated in the Amendment, because nobody imagined it would happen.

Tripler
MEBuckner beat me to it. . . like a ninja.

I seriously doubt SCOTUS would touch such a thing with a 10-арши́н pole. (Hypothetically) the President of the United States has been removed from office, and that’s been confirmed by a super-majority of both the House of Representatives and the Senate? “Political question, political question, political-question-political-question-political-question!!! Next case!”

But it was said, by at least me, that if the president is defecting, he doesn’t need any support equipment.

If AF-1 has enough fuel to fly to Moscow, that’s all he needs. The only one that would shoot him down is Putin, and in this theoretical scenario, not only wouldn’t Putin do that, he’d send his own escort planes.

Probably to protect his new neighbor from being shot down by loyal USAF pilots.

A wild hypothetical I know, but could he (or any President) order the Beast up to take him to JFK, and just buy a ticket? I know that the Secret Service would probably do the best they could to deflect and distract him, but could they legally prevent him from going to JFK and leaving the country? Can they legally prevent him (and again any President) from ordering up an Uber and splitting?

The POTUS can’t be indicted, but can he have his passport taken away if he’s considered a flight risk? Does the POTUS need a passport?

Is that the only recourse an enlisted man would have when a senior officer decides he needs help defecting? It seems there are going to plenty of ways the defecting officer could make sure contacting their superiors doesn’t happen (even just ordering them to turn their radio off).

The Benedict Arnold reference was half-joking, but presumably when a lot of the UCMJ was written that incident was still relatively fresh in the collective memory.