# Air France Crash (2009): Investigators homing in on black boxes **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 7, 2010, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-france-crash-2009-investigators-homing-in-on-black-boxes/538672 "2010-05-07T19:15:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-france-crash-2009-investigators-homing-in-on-black-boxes/538672/101 "2011-05-18T12:10:20Z")
True. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-france-crash-2009-investigators-homing-in-on-black-boxes/538672/102 "2011-05-18T12:57:11Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > The problem with long haul flying, or any flying really, is that you spend a lot of time at a low state of arousal. … I’ve been saying for years that transoceanic flights need a fluffer assigned to them! ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-france-crash-2009-investigators-homing-in-on-black-boxes/538672/103 "2011-05-18T19:22:39Z")
Or snakes on a plane… ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-france-crash-2009-investigators-homing-in-on-black-boxes/538672/104 "2011-05-18T19:32:43Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > …The 3 most important things to be aware of in a cockpit is airspeed, airspeed and airspeed… Realtors say something like that, but not quite. I’m guessing altitude and fuel are in the top five at least, right? ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-france-crash-2009-investigators-homing-in-on-black-boxes/538672/105 "2011-05-18T20:37:50Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Realtors say something like that, but not quite. > > I’m guessing altitude and fuel are in the top five at least, right? Well, you can trade airspeed for altitude. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-france-crash-2009-investigators-homing-in-on-black-boxes/538672/106 "2011-05-18T21:18:57Z")
Or the reverse… ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-france-crash-2009-investigators-homing-in-on-black-boxes/538672/107 "2011-05-19T00:06:32Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I don’t think it mattered. They probably had every warning buzzer and light going off at once or in such a rapid succession that it closed that small time window needed to stabilize the air speed. But they had plenty of altitude to fix that problem, if they’d been able to recognize stall warnings, or even a dangerous combination of attitude and power. You’re right about the suddenness of the problem making it difficult to address the problem, but basic aviating instincts should have taken over, even if they had just been woken from a sound sleep. > [@](#): > > The 3 most important things to be aware of in a cockpit is airspeed, airspeed and airspeed. The joke is that “I ran out of airspeed, altitude, and ideas at the same time”. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-france-crash-2009-investigators-homing-in-on-black-boxes/538672/108 "2011-05-19T00:37:57Z")
The three most important things about flying, in order of importance:[ol][_]Aviate[_]NavigateCommunicate[/ol] ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-france-crash-2009-investigators-homing-in-on-black-boxes/538672/109 "2011-05-19T07:01:18Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I’d hate to have to be the one to listen to the cockpit voice recorder. That would be like living through your worst nightmare. There was a play in NYC a few years ago where the script were transcripts from black boxes. They did a few where the pilots did manage to correct and bring the plane in safely. One actor just did the alarm voices. “pull up, pull up, pull up” ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-france-crash-2009-investigators-homing-in-on-black-boxes/538672/110 "2011-05-19T14:39:33Z")
I once read that “Oh, shit” is the most common thing last heard on CVRs. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-france-crash-2009-investigators-homing-in-on-black-boxes/538672/111 "2011-05-19T15:11:48Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I once read that “Oh, shit” is the most common thing last heard on CVRs. I’ve often suspected that sometimes when transcripts read: “(garbled, unintelligible)” it means that. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-france-crash-2009-investigators-homing-in-on-black-boxes/538672/112 "2011-05-19T15:54:22Z")
I’ve had to listen to the last minutes of flights before, as a type of “lessons learned” thing for the Air Force. Yeah, they’re horrid. I mean, they offer a lot of insight into what not to do, and they’re really captivating because you _know_ that in ten seconds they’re hitting a mountain or whatever, but it still sucks. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-france-crash-2009-investigators-homing-in-on-black-boxes/538672/113 "2011-05-19T18:31:08Z")
I just read a story on the last moments of the space shuttle Challenger where it was stated the last thing picked up by the cockpit recorder was, “Uh oh”. Some of the crew survived long enough to have said more while they were free falling through the ocean, but either the recorder failed or they’ve never released more. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-france-crash-2009-investigators-homing-in-on-black-boxes/538672/114 "2011-05-19T18:44:32Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I once read that “Oh, shit” is the most common thing last heard on CVRs. > [@JRDelirious](#): > > I’ve often suspected that sometimes when transcripts read: “(garbled, unintelligible)” it means that. Nope, where there is swearing they edit it as [expletive]. If the transcript says “unintelligible” that’s what it was. I have had the distinct displeasure of hearing someone’s last radio call just moments before crashing, live and in real time. I could have done without that. At least I wasn’t the guy watching from above as he went in, who keyed his mike and said “Yes, he’s down and burning.” ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-france-crash-2009-investigators-homing-in-on-black-boxes/538672/115 "2011-05-19T19:29:00Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I just read a story on the last moments of the space shuttle Challenger where it was stated the last thing picked up by the cockpit recorder was, “Uh oh”. Some of the crew survived long enough to have said more while they were free falling through the ocean, but either the recorder failed or they’ve never released more. [Quoth the Master:](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/954/did-the-astronauts-survive-the-challenger-explosion-long-enough-to-realize-their-plight) > [@](#): > > Pilot Michael Smith said “uh-oh!” and a fraction of a second later the shuttle broke into several large pieces. > … > Some of the astronauts managed to get their emergency air packs switched on; of the four units later recovered, three had been manually activated. The fact that the fourth was not may indicate it was only a short time before everybody blacked out, but nobody knows for sure. > > If the cabin depressurized immediately, the crew would have survived 6 to 15 seconds; if not, they might have lived two and a half minutes as their ruined vessel arced through the upper atmosphere, reaching a height of 65,000 feet before falling to earth. If the astronauts were still alive when they struck the water they weren’t afterward. The impact pulverized both cabin and crew… ---
**Author:** ![williambaskerville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f14d63/32.png) [@williambaskerville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/williambaskerville)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-france-crash-2009-investigators-homing-in-on-black-boxes/538672/116 "2011-05-27T14:04:59Z")
The BEA, the French accident investigation body, have released their interim findings on AF447, based on CVR and FDR analysis. [http://www.bea.aero/fr/enquetes/vol.af.447/point.enquete.af447.27mai2011.en.pdf](http://www.bea.aero/fr/enquetes/vol.af.447/point.enquete.af447.27mai2011.en.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Kiber](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kiber/32/317_2.png) [@Kiber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiber)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-france-crash-2009-investigators-homing-in-on-black-boxes/538672/117 "2011-05-27T14:49:29Z")
> [@williambaskerville](#): > > The BEA, the French accident investigation body, have released their interim findings on AF447, based on CVR and FDR analysis. > > [http://www.bea.aero/fr/enquetes/vol.af.447/point.enquete.af447.27mai2011.en.pdf](http://www.bea.aero/fr/enquetes/vol.af.447/point.enquete.af447.27mai2011.en.pdf) Thanks for posting this. I look forward to some people helping to explain this. I think the key quote for me was this one: > [@bea report](#): > > The last recorded values were a vertical speed of -10,912 ft/min, a ground speed of 107 kt, pitch attitude of 16.2 degrees nose-up, roll angle of 5.3 degrees left and a magnetic heading of 270 degrees. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-france-crash-2009-investigators-homing-in-on-black-boxes/538672/118 "2011-05-27T15:02:10Z")
> [@](#): > > the descent lasted 3 min 30, during which the airplane remained stalled. The angle of attack increased and remained above 35 degrees Doesn’t this mean it fell out of the sky after a stall that it never recovered from? Or at least that’s what the indicators said – and maybe that’s the problem. But shouldn’t the pilots have tried to drop the nose and pick up speed to recover from a stall? Or maybe they didn’t know (due to faulty indicators) that they were in a stall? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-france-crash-2009-investigators-homing-in-on-black-boxes/538672/119 "2011-05-27T15:02:23Z")
Here’s [CNN.com](http://CNN.com)’s story on the latest findings: [Air France crash pilots lost vital speed data, say investigators - CNN.com](http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/americas/05/27/air.france.447.crash/index.html?hpt=T1) ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-france-crash-2009-investigators-homing-in-on-black-boxes/538672/120 "2011-05-27T15:04:48Z")
I must be missing something. It reads to me as if the copilot thought the plane was stalling, perhaps because of faulty instruments, and then pulled the nose back until it really stalled, and kept pulling the nose back until it crashed. Which seems exactly the wrong thing to do, which is why I’m thinking I am mis-reading it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-france-crash-2009-investigators-homing-in-on-black-boxes/538672.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-france-crash-2009-investigators-homing-in-on-black-boxes/538672.md?page=7)