# Air travel after lockdown **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [May 10, 2020, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-travel-after-lockdown/853523 "2020-05-10T07:21:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2020, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-travel-after-lockdown/853523/1 "2020-05-10T07:21:58Z")
I’ve been wondering how things will return to normal. I read an article in _The Atlantic_ about one guy’s experience traveling by air. He had a miserable experience even though there weren’t that many people on the plane because they were all trying to distance, so they expected that the empty seats would give them room and became contentious if people encroached on their space. [I Just Flew. It Was Worse Than I Thought It Would Be.](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/05/is-flying-safe-coronavirus/611335/) He had a confrontation with another passenger along with a lot of uncomfortable situations. > [@](#): > > A standoff ensued, with the irate passenger protesting that there were plenty of empty rows where I could sit (there weren’t) and the long-suffering flight attendant all but threatening to kick him off the plane (she didn’t). Finally, he relented and I squeezed awkwardly into my seat as the man muttered profanities under his breath. The author concludes that things won’t return to how they were. > [@](#): > > my fraught travel experience highlighted an unwelcome truth: The glittering allure of “normalcy” that waits on the other end of these stay-at-home orders is a mirage. Shortly after I read the article, I saw [this picture](https://old.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/ggn3jx/united_airlines_said_they_would_close_off_middle/) of a full plane of people, none of them seemed to be complaining. I don’t know for sure when the picture was taken, but everyone I can see is wearing a mask. I’m wondering if the return to normal will look more like the first person’s experience or the picture of pretty much business as usual. Will it depend on the place? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2020, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-travel-after-lockdown/853523/2 "2020-05-10T07:49:40Z")
Cheap air travel has always involved taking your chances squeezing into an enclosed cabin for hours with dozens of other people, of whom you are 100% guaranteed some are teeming with particularly undesirable germs. Has any airline advertised any change in policy and concomitant jacking up of baseline fares? Would you be willing to pay what used to be first-class fares every time? I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2020, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-travel-after-lockdown/853523/3 "2020-05-10T08:50:25Z")
The big issue with air travel is the air con systems - they amount of recirc is such that even if you are spaced well apart it is completely meaningless - you might as well be right next to each other. I have seen no mention of that fact - but if air were to be cleaned up and less use made of recirc then it would inevitably be more expensive to fly. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2020, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-travel-after-lockdown/853523/4 "2020-05-10T08:51:17Z")
After we have a vaccine, I think things will just go back to normal, except for a requirement to prove immunity. Until then, it’s going to be difficult. As testing gets easier and better, PCR testing within 48 hours of flight departure would not be perfect but would reduce risk. But it seems likely that a lot of countries will mandate 2-week quarantine upon arrival. Of course, the clusterfuck that is the U.S. may just get out of control, a million deaths - but herd immunity by Christmas, hooray for everyone left alive! ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2020, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-travel-after-lockdown/853523/5 "2020-05-10T12:35:45Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > But it seems likely that a lot of countries will mandate 2-week quarantine upon arrival. There’s no way that can be a long-term policy without killing off almost all travel. Vacation travel? Most people’s vacations are probably around two weeks to begin with. Even if there isn’t a quarantine after you get back home (and why wouldn’t there be?), that means you need a month of vacation to get your two weeks vacation at your actual destination. How many people can take a full month off? Business travel has the same problem. You’re sending your people there because you don’t think they can do the work remotely. Are you going to pay them a month’s salary for a few days work in between quarantines? Imagine every meeting on your schedule needing a full month’s time commitment. The only travel you’d see would be long-term re-locations, where a two week delay isn’t a deal breaker. So things like immigration, where you plan to live there forever. Or long-term job placements, like teaching in a foreign country. People retiring to Costa Rica. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2020, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-travel-after-lockdown/853523/6 "2020-05-10T15:16:01Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > There’s no way that can be a long-term policy without killing off almost all travel. I agree, but I was talking about the interim period until we have a vaccine. I think most nonessential international air travel _will_ be killed off in that period. What’s the point of undergoing the hardship of lockdowns and social distancing measures to control the spread if you are going to allow potential new sources of infection to first enclose themselves in groups in close proximity in a metal tube for several hours, then disperse and travel around the country at will? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-travel-after-lockdown/853523/7 "2020-05-11T01:01:37Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > …The only travel you’d see would be long-term re-locations, where a two week delay isn’t a deal breaker. So things like immigration, where you plan to live there forever. Or long-term job placements, like teaching in a foreign country. People retiring to Costa Rica. That, and the idle super rich going to Europe for the season. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-travel-after-lockdown/853523/8 "2020-05-11T02:36:03Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > After we have a vaccine, I think things will just go back to normal, except for a requirement to prove immunity. There will never be a requirement to prove immunity. If a vaccine - not itself a likely thing anytime soon - is produced, then people will no longer worry about the disease at all, the way they don’t worry about polio now. There will be outrage over antivaxxers, but as it currently the case, that problem won’t be enough to get people panicked. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-travel-after-lockdown/853523/9 "2020-05-11T02:42:52Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > The big issue with air travel is the air con systems - they amount of recirc is such that even if you are spaced well apart it is completely meaningless - you might as well be right next to each other. > > I have seen no mention of that fact - but if air were to be cleaned up and less use made of recirc then it would inevitably be more expensive to fly. Supposedly they turn the air over every 3 minutes with external air, so it’s not like they just pressurize the cabin and everyone just marinates in everyone else’s exhalations and emissions for the duration of the flight. [Airplane air: Is oxygen added to the cabin?](https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/columnist/cox/2019/04/19/airplane-oxygen-air-conditioning/3508599002/) (note- a year ago!) ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-travel-after-lockdown/853523/10 "2020-05-11T02:56:54Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > There will never be a requirement to prove immunity. Perhaps not in the long run, if vaccination becomes routine and widespread so that a few holdouts don’t drop us below herd immunity. But when the vaccine is first introduced? I think your options will be to prove immunity, to be quarantined for 2 weeks on arrival, or to stay home. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-travel-after-lockdown/853523/11 "2020-05-11T03:04:10Z")
There may briefly be situations like that, but a much likelier scenario is that travel would not be permitted or - to be honest, the most likely outcome - that eventually people will just shrug and live with the disease, after some time has passed and new cases level off to a steady rate. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-travel-after-lockdown/853523/12 "2020-05-11T03:44:58Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Supposedly they turn the air over every 3 minutes with external air, so it’s not like they just pressurize the cabin and everyone just marinates in everyone else’s exhalations and emissions for the duration of the flight. > > [Airplane air: Is oxygen added to the cabin?](https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/columnist/cox/2019/04/19/airplane-oxygen-air-conditioning/3508599002/) (note- a year ago!) Also, they use highly effective HEPA air filters. Air quality is less a factor than proximity to virus-shedding passengers. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-travel-after-lockdown/853523/13 "2020-05-11T04:35:37Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > There may briefly be situations like that, but a much likelier scenario is that travel would not be permitted or - to be honest, the most likely outcome - that eventually people will just shrug and live with the disease, after some time has passed and new cases level off to a steady rate. Any guesses (if you care to) about when that might be. In the OP, I was wondering if that time was now. I just watched a video done by a couple Swedes about how they think the fear is mostly manufactured by the media and how relaxed they are about the whole thing there. Maybe people who get on planes a lot are more risk-tolerant than people who don’t and would likely take the chance? > [@bump](#): > > Supposedly they turn the air over every 3 minutes with external air, so it’s not like they just pressurize the cabin and everyone just marinates in everyone else’s exhalations and emissions for the duration of the flight. > > [Airplane air: Is oxygen added to the cabin?](https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/columnist/cox/2019/04/19/airplane-oxygen-air-conditioning/3508599002/) (note- a year ago!) > [@nelliebly](#): > > Also, they use highly effective HEPA air filters. Air quality is less a factor than proximity to virus-shedding passengers. Thanks for that info. I would never have guessed that considering how many times I’ve gotten sick after trips and the same with the people I know and also the foul smell of the air in planes. But as you say, it could be that coming into contact with different people and being in close proximity with them causes the illnesses. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-travel-after-lockdown/853523/14 "2020-05-11T12:27:55Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Supposedly they turn the air over every 3 minutes with external air, so it’s not like they just pressurize the cabin and everyone just marinates in everyone else’s exhalations and emissions for the duration of the flight. > > [Airplane air: Is oxygen added to the cabin?](https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/columnist/cox/2019/04/19/airplane-oxygen-air-conditioning/3508599002/) (note- a year ago!) Right. Planes are very leaky. Air is constantly entering and exiting the plane’s interior. It’s one reason why that “Airport” movie where the 747 sinks into the ocean and the passengers relax for the rest of the day (as if they were in a submarine) is laughably wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-travel-after-lockdown/853523/15 "2020-05-11T14:47:32Z")
JetBlue announced a week or so ago that all passengers on all flights would be expected to wear masks during the entire flight, from take off to landing. That’s unfortunate for me, as they’re my preferred airline. Not sure if other carriers will follow their lead. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-travel-after-lockdown/853523/16 "2020-05-11T14:52:17Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > Any guesses (if you care to) about when that might be. In the OP, I was wondering if that time was now. I just watched a video done by a couple Swedes about how they think the fear is mostly manufactured by the media and how relaxed they are about the whole thing there. Maybe people who get on planes a lot are more risk-tolerant than people who don’t and would likely take the chance? I’m not sure. I know to those of us in lockdown it feels like forever, but it’s not even been two months here. Of course, it depends a lot where you live. Here in Ontario, there remains substantial public support for lockdown; I’m not sure how far into good weather that will last, though. There are nuts EVERYWHERE who think this is all a hoax, Bill Gates, QAnon, blah blah blah, but the “Shrug” moment comes when normal people are accustomed to the risk. That point isn’t pre-set. It’s dependent on the pandemic levelling off, a thing that can happen and then not happen again. My guess for here is that support for lockdown is going to wither away in June, although most people will still support blocking Americans from coming across the border. What will happen, though, is that at some point, likely before summer is up, a critical mass of people here will say “yeah, this sucks but it’s someone else’s problem” and will want to go about their business as long as there are “Security theatre” pageants they can see to make them feel better, the way that after 9/11, heightened security at the check in at airports made people feel better even though it didn’t really do anything to make them safer. The thing about a graduated lifting of lockdown is that it’ll level off the infection rate to a predictable number. It doesn’t matter if that number is high, what matters is that it stays the same. That’s what will get people used to it, the way t hey are used to car accidents and drownings. It’s an upward change in the number that frightens people. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-travel-after-lockdown/853523/17 "2020-05-11T15:30:33Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > JetBlue announced a week or so ago that all passengers on all flights would be expected to wear masks during the entire flight, from take off to landing. That’s unfortunate for me, as they’re my preferred airline. Unfortunate…why? ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-travel-after-lockdown/853523/18 "2020-05-11T15:37:52Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Right. Planes are very leaky. Air is constantly entering and exiting the plane’s interior. I don’t think you understand the concept nor the reality of a pressurized air cabin. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-travel-after-lockdown/853523/19 "2020-05-11T15:38:44Z")
Because I don’t want to wear a mask for the entire flight. They’re not very comfortable. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-travel-after-lockdown/853523/20 "2020-05-11T15:41:09Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Because I don’t want to wear a mask for the entire flight. They’re not very comfortable. I agree they are uncomfortable. I’m willing to be uncomfortable for a few hours though, if it is for a good cause. If I had to fly tomorrow, I’d go out of my way to fly an airline that required masks and distancing. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/air-travel-after-lockdown/853523.md?page=2)