# Airline passenger etiquette: reclining your seat **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 16, 2020, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044 "2020-02-16T21:22:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/101 "2020-02-18T02:11:29Z")
You may fly frequently but you obviously skimmed over the part where I said I have complained, so I’ll break this down into manageable chunks for you point by point. > [@elbows](#): > > But you’re all okay with someone not catching a wink of sleep, on a seventeen hr flight back from Asia, because the person seated behind me is above average height? Good to know. Because their comfort over rides because…they’re tall? > > **Not what I said. I’m 1.83 m tall and my shoulders span well across the seat so it’s a tight fit most of the time. Where I can I pay for the exit row seats or fwd bulkhead seats, especially on anything over 2 hrs. i don’t have an issue if someone wants to recline and sleep. I DO mind if they just ratchet the seat back without the courtesy of letting me know it’s about to happen. A simple “Excuse me, do you mind if I put the seat back?” Goes a looong way.** > > I see plenty of other very tall people, (and have a 6’6” nephew), and they all seem to manage, without complaint. They don’t think it’s someone else’s cross to bear that they’re extra tall! > **My sons are 1.9 and 2.1 m tall. You point is? A simple bit of courtesy makes a relatively tense couple of hours smoother** > > If you’re only irate enough to complain to the people around you and can’t be arsed to EVER speak to the airline, then you’re just being an annoyance on someone’s trip! > **I said it before, I have gone to the airlines on multiple occasions, specifically on my wedding flight above mentioned. I’m not pissing and moaning to my fellow passengers, just focusing my attention on the inconsiderate (on the PV flight) bitch who jammed her seat back without warning and drove the back of the seat into my knees. It hurt. I responded.** > > IF it was such a significant issue, and involved sufficient numbers, (or y’all bitched to someone who mattered instead of us!), you might see change. But instead you’re just being miserable to others. > > **Well , as I don’t tend to have airline CEOs on speed dial I’ve found calling the airline is pretty much useless. You want to be nasty and righteous, prepare for the same.** > > Your forward seat mate didn’t make you oversized and they are not obligated to sacrifice their comfort for yours. > > **See above.** > > (Also I’ve never been on a plane that didn’t require ALL seats upright during food service. Like, they always check AND make everyone abide. And I fly frequently, mostly long haul.) > > \*\*Food service wasn’t mentioned by me, but I do like a good Greek Salad!. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/102 "2020-02-18T07:41:24Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > That assumes the conclusion that somebody is being jerk by using the functions of the seat that have paid for. I don’t think the ethics are at all black-and-white here. On a long flight, those few inches of recline can make the difference between a reasonable sleep and a poor sleep with a sore neck, so the comfort aspect isn’t all one way. It’s not ethically black-and-white to me that it is _them_ being the jerk if they are forced to forego recline and be less comfortable because they are unlucky enough to be sat in front of someone who refused to pay extra for a larger seat to accommodate their own size comfortably. I paid for a certain volume of space, some of which is taken away when a person reclines. I pay for the ability to unfold my laptop on the tray table, which is also taken away when someone reclines. Want to sleep? Get a window seat, which lets you lean on the window. Or better yet, buy a first class ticket. When I fly business class, no problem getting enough space to sleep without annoying anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/103 "2020-02-18T07:54:13Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I paid for a certain volume of space, some of which is taken away when a person reclines. I pay for the ability to unfold my laptop on the tray table, which is also taken away when someone reclines. > Want to sleep? Get a window seat, which lets you lean on the window. Or better yet, buy a first class ticket. When I fly business class, no problem getting enough space to sleep without annoying anyone else. Nope. Seats are _designed_ to recline, so nobody is taking away “your” space, it’s a feature of the seat configuration. Similarly, your seat is designed to recline. I get that you don’t like this, and you’d prefer that all seats were non-reclining. But that isn’t the seat configuration that most airlines provide at the moment. As I mentioned upthread, I think all airlines should switch to sections of the plane having non-reclining seats to accommodate people with your preference, then people overall would be much happier. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/104 "2020-02-18T07:57:00Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I paid for a certain volume of space, some of which is taken away when a person reclines. You, and they, have aslo paid for the volume of space that can be taken up when seats recline. I don’t think you have a defendable case. The suggestion of choosing a specific seat or class of travel in order to guarantee comfort applies at _least_ as much to anyone bothered by a seat reclining in front of them. And for those amazed that recline matters at all, you may be astonished to know that some people are unable to sleep at all in an upright position and the recline, even a small amount, is the only thing that makes it possible. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/105 "2020-02-18T07:57:31Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > :dubious: I’ve never heard of such a thing, at least not on United. They ask people to have seatbacks up for takeoff and landing, I can’t remember ever hearing them say to put them upright _during_ a flight. I was flying when everyone had food service, and I never have heard of this either. I have had times where it was almost impossible for me to eat since someone reclined the seat in front of me. Either Southwest has reduced the recline or I’ve been lucky lately, since it hasn’t been a problem for a while. The 737-700s in their fleet are especially good. Reasonable amounts of legroom. The older planes, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/106 "2020-02-18T08:02:51Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > You, and they, have aslo paid for the volume of space that can be taken up when seats recline. I don’t think you have a defendable case. > > The suggestion of choosing a specific seat or class of travel in order to guarantee comfort applies at _least_ as much to anyone bothered by a seat reclining in front of them. > > And for those amazed that recline matters at all, you may be astonished to know that some people are unable to sleep at all in an upright position and the recline, even a small amount, is the only thing that makes it possible. So, you don’t think that each passenger deserves the same amount of room? Or access to their tray tables? Or is the only solution that everyone recline and force the person behind them to recline except for the poor guy in the last row who can’t. A small amount of reclining is not bad. What is bad is all the way, so the person’s head is practically in your lap. If the person in front of me reclines an inch or so, I’m never bothered. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/107 "2020-02-18T08:15:27Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > So, you don’t think that each passenger deserves the same amount of room? Or access to their tray tables? They do have all have exactly the _same_ amount of room, and the _same_ level of access to their tray tables. You have the _same_ recline feature as other passengers. You just don’t personally value your recline feature. Other people feel differently, because reclining allows them to sleep. What this amounts to is that you want the airlines to configure their seats differently, and you’re pissed that they don’t do it the way you like. I agree that they _should_ offer non-reclining seats in sections of the plane, if there’s a demand for it. But unless they do that, it’s nonsense to claim that other people are invading “your” space. They are simply not offering a product that precisely suits you. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/108 "2020-02-18T09:08:16Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > A small amount of reclining is not bad. What is bad is all the way, so the person’s head is practically in your lap. If you care name the airline that gives their economy passengers that much recline do let me know, I’d be happy to give them my business. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/109 "2020-02-18T09:13:30Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I agree that they _should_ offer non-reclining seats in sections of the plane, if there’s a demand for it. But unless they do that, it’s nonsense to claim that other people are invading “your” space. They are simply not offering a product that precisely suits you. Exactly, I’ve mentioned upthread that Ryanair have moved to a standard of non-reclining seats on their short-haul flights and as far as I know mass-hysteria hasn’t broken out, even amongst those of us who need to recline to sleep. I’m slightly inconvenienced by it but seeing as I know about it in advance and am paying a tiny amount for the flight I’m perfectly happy to live with it. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/110 "2020-02-18T19:37:59Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > If you care name the airline that gives their economy passengers that much recline do let me know, I’d be happy to give them my business. United, about 10 years ago though. I haven’t flown them much at all lately. And I don’t know which airlines have adjusted their seats not to recline so much in reaction to the anti-reclining tool of a few years back. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/111 "2020-02-18T19:41:21Z")
It strikes me that this issue is a splendid example of [the endowment effect.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endowment_effect) The reclinee, having all the space on take off, puts more value in it than the recliner who can’t understand why the reclinee minds so much when he steals the space. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/112 "2020-02-18T19:43:34Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > They do have all have exactly the _same_ amount of room, and the _same_ level of access to their tray tables. You have the _same_ recline feature as other passengers. You just don’t personally value your recline feature. Other people feel differently, because reclining allows them to sleep. No, they don’t. For starters, the guy in the back row can’t recline at all, because there’s a wall (bulkhead) preventing it. That means his space is reduced and his use of the tray table impaired so the person ahead of him can spread out a little. Depending on when/how his ticket was purchased, etc., that may have been the only option for him, but you’re saying he should be okay with somebody reducing his space for their own comfort. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/113 "2020-02-18T19:57:44Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > It strikes me that this issue is a splendid example of [the endowment effect.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endowment_effect) The reclinee, having all the space on take off, puts more value in it than the recliner who can’t understand why the reclinee minds so much when he steals the space. Complete nonsense. Everyone knows the way airline seats function, it’s not as though anyone was tricking you when you bought your ticket. I get that you _want_ to own all the space in front of you. But you did _not_ buy it, because it was never offered to you for purchase. It’s a well known feature of the product you bought that seats are configured to recline. You don’t _like_ the product that most airlines offer, I get it. I fully support you in that I believe airlines _should_ offer a different product to people who want it - sections of the plane where seats don’t recline. But right now they don’t. Your beef is with the airlines, not with somebody sitting in front of you who wants to use the actual product that they paid for. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/114 "2020-02-18T20:01:11Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > No, they don’t. For starters, the guy in the back row can’t recline at all, because there’s a wall (bulkhead) preventing it. That means his space is reduced and his use of the tray table impaired so the person ahead of him can spread out a little. Depending on when/how his ticket was purchased, etc., that may have been the only option for him, but you’re saying he should be okay with somebody reducing his space for their own comfort. I agree that a seat configuration where the back row is disadvantaged is wrong. That has nothing to do with the question of people utilizing the product that they purchased in the way it was obviously configured to be used. Again, your beef is with the airlines - I agree that they _should_ offer a non-reclining product in some sections of the plane for people who want that. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/115 "2020-02-18T20:08:16Z")
The back row isn’t the only one that doesn’t recline. I think the one directly in front of the over-the-wing exit row is also prevented from reclining. And that information is available when I select the seat on the airline website. (And more detailed information is available on sites like [SeatGuru.com](http://SeatGuru.com).) The back row also has the disadvantage of being near the bathrooms, so you get odor and noise from there, as well as from the aft galley. So few people voluntarily select the back row; it’s usually what someone is stuck with when they book late. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/116 "2020-02-18T20:20:46Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’d really like to know what airline you’ve been flying with where the seats recline that far back. Just because you are too short to be bothered by a seat reclining into your knees, doesn’t mean we all are. My knees sit immediately behind your seat at the best of times. When you recline back you hit my knees, unless I have room to spread them. When you recline back there is /never/ room for my tray to sit flat, and if I’m sitting there with the tray at 20 degrees, I blame the airline for not asking you to adjust your seat at meal times. When my foot goes out into the aisle so that you can recline, the cabin crew step on it. Now the CEO says it’s your fault, not that of the cabin crew. You should have check, so that the cabin crew don’t have to. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/117 "2020-02-18T20:25:29Z")
So what’s the objection to just implementing non-recline sections? If the world is roughly split half and half on this (or whatever the proportions are), why wouldn’t the airlines just make the left side of economy be recline, the right side non-recline? I doubt that a mechanical solution would be difficult to implement, but even if it were it could be enforced without a mechanical restriction. Of course there would still be a few people who didn’t get the side they want, but wouldn’t this make people generally happier? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/118 "2020-02-18T20:27:24Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > Just because you are too short to be bothered by a seat reclining into your knees, doesn’t mean we all are. My knees sit immediately behind your seat at the best of times. When you recline back you hit my knees, unless I have room to spread them. When you recline back there is /never/ room for my tray to sit flat, and if I’m sitting there with the tray at 20 degrees, I blame the airline for not asking you to adjust your seat at meal times. When my foot goes out into the aisle so that you can recline, the cabin crew step on it. > > Now the CEO says it’s your fault, not that of the cabin crew. You should have check, so that the cabin crew don’t have to. The event occurred on an American Airlines flight and as far I can find, the airline or its CEO has not publicly commented. Are you referring to the CEO of Delta Airlines, who did comment, suggesting that a passenger should ask permission of the one behind them before reclining? ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/119 "2020-02-18T21:16:06Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Nope. Seats are _designed_ to recline, so nobody is taking away “your” space, it’s a feature of the seat configuration. Similarly, your seat is designed to recline. I get that you don’t like this, and you’d prefer that all seats were non-reclining. But that isn’t the seat configuration that most airlines provide at the moment. > > As I mentioned upthread, I think all airlines should switch to sections of the plane having non-reclining seats to accommodate people with your preference, then people overall would be much happier. The “designed to recline” seats give you a whopping two inches of recline. As I said upthread, I moved my own recliner seat back exactly two inches, and the difference in comfort is negligible. Try it yourself. And airlines already have a section of seats that recline. It’s called First Class. That’s the section you thought people who need more space should sit, so you should have no problem moving there yourself, especially since you think airline fares are such a bargain these days. And those seats actually do\* \*recline. I think eventually airlines will do away with the so-called reclining seats in coach altogether. That day can’t come too soon for many of us. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/120 "2020-02-18T22:29:52Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > The “designed to recline” seats give you a whopping two inches of recline. As I said upthread, I moved my own recliner seat back exactly two inches, and the difference in comfort is negligible. Try it yourself. Negligble for you perhaps, others disagree, that small amount of recline makes a massive difference to my comfort. What other reason is there for me doing it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044.md?page=7)