# Airline passenger etiquette: reclining your seat **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 16, 2020, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044 "2020-02-16T21:22:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/121 "2020-02-18T22:55:10Z")
Last time I was on a plane I think was to go to New York about a year ago. Between the security theater, the limited space on the plane (I’m not a huge guy and I was cramped), the viruses flowing around on recirculated air, and the general PITA of getting to and navigating an airport I decided I would never fly again. Can’t wait to trot out that decision next time someone suggests we go someplace and I offer to drive. This whole bruhaha about reclining, it’s a red herring to get us away from the people who decide how many seats are going to be on the plane. Nobody likes getting their knees crushed, and nobody enjoys sitting bolt upright for hours on end. The airline people have developed a lucrative seating pattern that will encourage passengers to view each other as the bad guy, and take attention off them for creating an increasingly miserable and degrading experience. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/122 "2020-02-18T23:01:53Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > I don’t know why we continue to have this debate when one’s position on the issue is entirely determined by how tall they are. > [@pulykamell](#): > > Because I’m not entirely sure that’s true at all. Kind of, for certain values of “tall”. I do agree that most anti-recliners aren’t actually put out much, much less having their knees crushed. Then they’re are those of us who don’t fit when the seat of front is bolt upright. Reclining on us is a different matter entirely. I’ll fly again in March for the first time in 2 years, and I’m already not looking forward to it. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/123 "2020-02-18T23:28:47Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > the viruses flowing around on recirculated air, That part is a myth. Only about half of the air is recirculated. The other half is vented out through a valve in the back of plane, and new air brought in through the plane’s air conditioning packs. At that ratio the cabin air gets completely replaced every two to three minutes. And the recirculated portion passes through filters that Boeing says captures 94 to 99.9% of airborne microbes. Cite: [The truth about cabin air](https://www.askthepilot.com/questionanswers/cabin-air-quality/) ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/124 "2020-02-19T00:57:42Z")
> [@](#): > > I’ll fly again in March for the first time in 2 years, and I’m already not looking forward to it. there was a time when flying was fun\*! not sure how long it’s been since that was true. ☹ ETA: \* well, travel was fun. and flying was at least not miserable! ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/125 "2020-02-19T01:53:26Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Complete nonsense. Everyone knows the way airline seats function, it’s not as though anyone was tricking you when you bought your ticket. I get that you _want_ to own all the space in front of you. But you did _not_ buy it, because it was never offered to you for purchase. It’s a well known feature of the product you bought that seats are configured to recline. You obviously don’t understand the endowment effect. > [@](#): > > You don’t _like_ the product that most airlines offer, I get it. I fully support you in that I believe airlines _should_ offer a different product to people who want it - sections of the plane where seats don’t recline. But right now they don’t. Your beef is with the airlines, not with somebody sitting in front of you who wants to use the actual product that they paid for. I’m for this, but since the airlines will definitely charge for this (like they charge for everything else) I’d want the recliners to pay extra, and those who do not pay to not be allowed to recline. Plus recliners can only be in front of other recliners. Since from what I’ve seen most people don’t recline, one side of the plane might not be enough. A non-recliner on the wrong side shouldn’t get inconvenienced. BTW, I assume that if you are in the aisle or window seat you grab the center arm rest also. After all, you have just as much right to it as the poor person in the middle, right? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/126 "2020-02-19T01:54:28Z")
> [@JackieLikesVariety](#): > > there was a time when flying was fun\*! not sure how long it’s been since that was true. ☹ > ETA: \* well, travel was fun. and flying was at least not miserable! I remember when I got a steak on a not very long flight. This was on Eastern Airlines, which tells you how long ago it was. ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/127 "2020-02-19T05:03:59Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Either Southwest has reduced the recline or I’ve been lucky lately, since it hasn’t been a problem for a while. The 737-700s in their fleet are especially good. Reasonable amounts of legroom. The older planes, not so much. I have flown Southwest exclusively for about 20 years, and I can’t recall the last time I was able to recline a seat on one of their planes. Sometimes I’ll try it, thinking I’ll recline it about an inch—enough to give me a sliver of additional comfort without annoying the person behind me. So I press the button and push back on the seat, and _nothing happens_. I do agree that it’s a bit rude to recline an airline seat to its maximum extent (and more so when it’s done quickly and abruptly). However, that isn’t a tenth as rude as pounding on the back of someone’s seat like a defiant four-year-old. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/128 "2020-02-19T05:47:53Z")
Tall people have nearly every advantage based on their height except this one, and they are utterly confounded by the experience apparently. Seats recline. I don’t recline mine, but if the guy in the seat in front of me does, as his his right, I do. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/129 "2020-02-19T05:49:10Z")
No dog in this fight - short person and very grateful of that when flying! I can also sleep standing up, or knees tucked into fetal position, if need be. Just give me 30 seconds and I am out! My seat reclined actually seem uncomfortable to me. I very seriously feel sorry for tall people who fly, especially those who cannot easily afford the expensive upgrades to at least economy plus When the person in front of me reclines I am not made uncomfortable … but I am going be crossing and uncrossing my legs and getting up to use the bathroom … it is pretty unavoidable that my knees will be banging into the seat in front me if it is reclined, even at my height. Now of course using the logic of some people here that is _their_ problem not mine. I paid for my space and if my legs bang into the seat in front of me, _again and again_ as I use the seat in a reasonable sitting manner during the flight, well they should have paid for first class so they were far enough away from the person behind that it would not be an issue if they wanted to avoid that! It’s an unspoken social contract. Respect their space and they should do their very best to respect yours. Violate the terms and the contract is null and void, expect to have your seat bumped into often and hard by crossing legs pushing up against your seat in search of a comfortable position! IF I was someone more comfortable with the seat reclined the wee bit it goes and there was a tallish person behind me, no question I’d likely just not do it, but certainly would not without asking first.Someone my height? Not so sure. I took that social contract to heart most when flying with a lap child back in the day. If the person kept their seat up I would do whatever it took to protect them from my child’s kicks or roving sticky hands. They put their seat back? I no longer had any such obligation and had no problem giving the PB and J snack! 🙂 Economy seats (which typically have an unreclined “pitch” of 31" or less nowadays) shouldn’t recline. There really is not room for them to do so if the seat behind is occupied by any one taller than me. (Which is a large portion of the American population!) ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/130 "2020-02-19T06:07:01Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Tall people have nearly every advantage based on their height except this one, and they are utterly confounded by the experience apparently. > > Seats recline. I don’t recline mine, but if the guy in the seat in front of me does, as his his right, I do. So your Napoleon Complex makes you feel justified to literally cause me pain for the duration of a 4-hour flight? ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/131 "2020-02-19T06:27:34Z")
Count me as someone who believes that anyone on a plane today is going in with full awareness of the recline situation. If the issue is so important to you, pay for premium economy or business/first class, or at least make sure you don’t take a seat in the very last row. Don’t expect me to trade my comfort for yours just because you tried to save a few bucks! > [@Pleonast](#): > > Complicating the issue is that packing more people onto planes reduces the environmental impact of each person flying. That means that policies that we don’t like as passengers (less space per seat, overbooking flights, charging more per luggage) are actually passing on part of the environmental costs of flying to us. Which is better for the people of the world, collectively. > > And in general, packing people closer together reduces the impact of each person on the environment. We, as a society, have to learn how to handle being in closer proximity to each other. You have to be miserable because it’s good for the environment. What an inspiring vision for the 21st century. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/132 "2020-02-19T07:00:05Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > Count me as someone who believes that anyone on a plane today is going in with full awareness of the recline situation. If the issue is so important to you, pay for premium economy or business/first class, or at least make sure you don’t take a seat in the very last row. Don’t expect me to trade my comfort for yours just because you tried to save a few bucks! You’re assuming that everybody in that situation had a choice, and that is not an accurate assumption. For example, if I travel on business, I don’t get to make my own reservations; my employer’s “travel center” has to do it. There is no circumstance whatsoever in which they will pay for business class, much less first class, nor will they permit me to pay the difference to upgrade myself. Premium economy is an option only if the price difference is within a certain percentage. Otherwise, I’m stuck in cattle class, and since I work in the public sector, this isn’t likely to change. People who need to travel urgently (for business or family reasons) take whatever seat they can get. Depending on airline, flight/route, and booking site used, seat selection may or may not be an option, and even if you pick a particular seat, it may or may not be guaranteed. etc. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/133 "2020-02-19T07:13:31Z")
I just grab a telescope out of my overhead bag, elongate it between the back of the chair in front of me and my chair (just above whatever shoulder side that I can back away from to go to the can/cockpit), and then securely duct tape the joins. ::smugly tapping temple:: ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/134 "2020-02-19T07:53:22Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > You’re assuming that everybody in that situation had a choice, and that is not an accurate assumption. > > For example, if I travel on business, I don’t get to make my own reservations; my employer’s “travel center” has to do it. There is no circumstance whatsoever in which they will pay for business class, much less first class, nor will they permit me to pay the difference to upgrade myself. Premium economy is an option only if the price difference is within a certain percentage. Otherwise, I’m stuck in cattle class, and since I work in the public sector, this isn’t likely to change. We’ve all got problems - this one’s yours. > [@](#): > > People who need to travel urgently (for business or family reasons) take whatever seat they can get. Depending on airline, flight/route, and booking site used, seat selection may or may not be an option, and even if you pick a particular seat, it may or may not be guaranteed. etc. The intersection of all the conditions required to make a sympathetic case here (tall person, urgent travel, would normally pay to upgrade, only basic economy available, no other routes, etc.) is too rare to justify the position that reclining is wrong in general. ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/135 "2020-02-19T08:09:44Z")
delete ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/136 "2020-02-19T08:12:59Z")
I should add - I am 6’1" and I generally don’t recline unless the person in front of me does. I try to fly premium economy whenever possible. Another reason I’m not sympathetic to the knee complainers is that the geometry doesn’t make sense to me. Last time I was in basic economy (United Boeing 737, mid 2019), I paid attention to this issue. If I sit all the way back in my seat in basic economy: [ul] [li]Sitting with my knees at 90 degrees and feet flat on the floor, there’s at least 6 inches of room between my knees and the seatback in front of me, maybe more. I don’t think I have particularly short legs.[/li][li]Even if the person in front of me reclines, the base of the seatback (where my knees are) doesn’t move, since it’s the pivot point for the seatback. The top of the seatback moves closer to me, but that’s nowhere near my knees.[/li][li]It’s quite easy for me to extend my legs and stretch them under the seat in front me, which provides additional clearance. There’s also the option of splaying my legs out a bit (“manspreading”, hah!) [/li][/ul] Far all these reasons, I am highly skeptical of the claims of physical pain unless you’re a \<1% outlier in height or something. So in my opinion, in almost all circumstances this really is just about comfort, not pain, and in that case why is your comfort more important than mine? ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/137 "2020-02-19T09:05:03Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > Far all these reasons, I am highly skeptical of the claims of physical pain unless you’re a \<1% outlier in height or something. So in my opinion, in almost all circumstances this really is just about comfort, not pain, and in that case why is your comfort more important than mine? I’m 6’3", have relatives in the USA, and can’t afford business class. If I attend a funeral (my choice), I complain about the flight (my choice). My knees touch the seat in front when the chairs are upright and I’m pushed back against the back of my chair. If you recline, I’m in pain. Not from the chair pushing my knees, in pain from the immobility of not being able to move my legs because they are pinned in place. I don’t think your comfort is less important than mine, but I’ve sat in chairs that don’t recline all my life: at school, in the office. My pain from being stuck in a non-reclining chair for 14 hours is not comparable to my pain from being pinned between two chairs for 14 hours. And even if it is: if you keep your chair reclined during meals, you’re a dick. And if you would look around behind you, you would see why your chair doesn’t recline like the other chairs. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/138 "2020-02-19T09:07:44Z")
I agree the airlines need to get rid of those reclining seats in steerage. Those relics were designed before laptops, and the two do not mix :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Scougs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scougs/32/3158_2.png) [@Scougs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scougs)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/139 "2020-02-19T10:59:35Z")
A couple of observations. The same planes fly long distance/overnight and short/daytime flights. On a long overnight flight, it starts with the lights on, and there is usually a meal service not long after take off. Once all the meal trays have been removed, the cabin lights are usually dimmed. This, to me, is the signal that it is now acceptable to recline. Because the majority will recline at this stage it’s not an issue (expect for the poor folk in the non-reclining rows). In a short daytime flight, I really don’t see why there is any need to recline. People are working on laptops, tablets, snacking and drinking. This seems, in my experience, to be a partly cultural thing. For short daytime flights, in the UK people just don’t recline. I was amazed on a daytime domestic flight in the US when as soon as the wheels were up - SLAM - the seat in front knocked my Kindle clear out of my hand. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044/140 "2020-02-19T15:13:28Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > So your Napoleon Complex makes you feel justified to literally cause me pain for the duration of a 4-hour flight? I finally get what privilege is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passenger-etiquette-reclining-your-seat/848044.md?page=8)