# "Airline passengers getting heads examined" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 17, 2002, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passengers-getting-heads-examined/137153 "2002-11-17T10:34:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passengers-getting-heads-examined/137153/21 "2002-11-19T01:21:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > Since you made the statement, shouldn’t you be the one who has to “look it up”? If this was “Great Debates” I would provide a cite. It isn’t. People learn more when they do their own homework. It’s not like the information is Top Secret or anything. > [@](#): > > I’m sure **j\_kat** will correct me if I’m misunderstanding, but it sounded like he/she was asking for clarification, not making an accusation. Is it possible that you are overreacting? Oh, sure, it’s possible - it’s also possible that that was an insinuation that I am some sort of racist, or even that j\_kat him/herself believe white boys aren’t a threat. Either one of which I find offensive, quite frankly. > [@](#): > > Why is it when people ask a question in this forum, those who choose not to answer it feel free to just scream their fool head off? Just because we’re in here doesn’t mean that logic, sensibility, and intelligence have to fly out the window, unused. Um…It’s the Pit? Seriously - this is the forum for ranting, raving, screaming, and frothing at the mouth. And I didn’t “choose not to answer” - I answered the question. Maybe you didn’t like my answer(s), but I answered nontheless. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passengers-getting-heads-examined/137153/22 "2002-11-19T01:55:41Z")
McVeigh was white. Johnny Walker was white. If International Terror thinks it can get better odds by sending Caucasian or Caucasian-looking people into the US, it’ll do just that. Hell, skin bleaching and minor surgery isn’t even an obstacle. If they think they can put a bomb over us by getting their operatives to resemble crippled Jewish men, they’ll do that. Going by looks isn’t a rational way of doing things. The defender _always always always_ has the harder time of things. Thinking there are easy answers is stupid. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passengers-getting-heads-examined/137153/23 "2002-11-19T02:01:24Z")
How come the one who challenges gets to cause the other to do all the work? Nobody ever answers my calls for proof. Who put wiffle dust on j\_kat\_251? I want some too. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passengers-getting-heads-examined/137153/24 "2002-11-19T02:08:21Z")
> [@](#): > > If this was “Great Debates” I would provide a cite. It isn’t. People learn more when they do their own homework. > > It’s not like the information is Top Secret or anything. I dont’ think so. GD is not the only place where you need to back up your words. You made the claim, so back it up. I’m not saying you’re wrong, but you were asked for a cite, and you should have been prepared to provide one. If the info is as easy to find as you say, you should have no problem, but the burden is on you, not j\_kat. > [@](#): > > Oh, sure, it’s possible - it’s also possible that that was an insinuation that I am some sort of racist, or even that j\_kat him/herself believe white boys aren’t a threat. Either one of which I find offensive, quite frankly. It’s only an insinuation if you decide to take it as such - I can’t speak for anyone else, of course, but all I saw was a simple question, at which you basically exploded. > [@](#): > > And I didn’t “choose not to answer” - I answered the question. Maybe you didn’t like my answer(s), but I answered nontheless. No sir, you did not answer the question. If > [@](#): > > What? You think white boys aren’t dangerous, too? McVeigh looked pretty Caucasian to me. How far out in left field do you have to be to come up with that? I said any ethnic group, I didn’t mention any exceptions, did I? I didn’t say “All males of any ethnic group except left-handed half-Polynesians”, did I? I didn’t say “All males of any ethnic group but whites” either. WTF - white folks don’t have ethnicity? What are they, then, transplants from Mars? answers any question, I’m a three-toed sloth from Nigeria. All you did was take huge offense at a question and answered nothing. Now, did you want to prove your point, or did you just want to be another screaming lunatic? [By the way, “because it’s the Pit” is a cop-out excuse. You can do better.] ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passengers-getting-heads-examined/137153/25 "2002-11-19T06:01:54Z")
Holy hell, what are you two arguing about? Well, I was curious and I looked it up myself-- just in case anyone else is interested. [http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/gender.htm](http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/gender.htm) [quote] [ul][li]Males were almost 9 times more likely than females to commit murder in 1999 [/li][li]Both male and female offenders are more likely to target male victims than female victims [/li][li]The offending rates for females have declined since the early 1980’s while those for males peaked in the early 1990’s and have fallen considerably since then [/ul][/li] There’s more at [the Bureau of Justice Statistics.](http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/welcome.html). Random searches are just window dressing. It’s makes those who are easily soothed feel better. It won’t catch any terrorists-- not even those suspected as terrorists, detained in other countries for suspected terrorism with fuses in their sneakers. ---
**Author:** ![j\_kat\_251](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/71c47a/32.png) [@j\_kat\_251](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j_kat_251)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passengers-getting-heads-examined/137153/26 "2002-11-19T06:50:51Z")
Thanks, dan. You are correct, and also a paragon of virtue. Now, to clear things up (after a fashion): I had a different definition of ethnicity than this other, more aggressive guy. Something similar to number 2 here: > **[Definition of ethnic | Dictionary.com](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/ethnic)** > > Definition of ethnic from Dictionary.com, the world’s leading online source for English definitions, pronunciations, word origins, idioms, Word of the Day, and more. but without the ‘heathen’ part. Now I know better. This kind of changes the part about the crime statistic, but now that I know never to ask someone about what they just said except in GD, I am sufficiently re-educated. Okay that just about wraps it up. Wait: why would someone say “Jumpin’ Jiminy Crickets” and then use the word fuck in the next sentence? That’s a question for the “Christian glurge/adult jokes” thread though I guess. Yeah. All squared away, now. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passengers-getting-heads-examined/137153/27 "2002-11-19T07:21:43Z")
A lot of people think that ethnicity is like an accent – it’s something that _other_ people have. Hell, I’m Canadian. Having no ethnicity and no accent is what it’s all aboot. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passengers-getting-heads-examined/137153/28 "2002-11-19T11:34:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > I dont’ think so. GD is not the only place where you need to back up your words. You made the claim, so back it up. I’m not saying you’re wrong, but you were asked for a cite, and you should have been prepared to provide one. Why? Because you say so? Because someone is too lazy to look it up themselves? If I was making some whacked-out extraordinary claim I could see this, but I wasn’t. > [@](#): > > It’s only an insinuation if you decide to take it as such - I can’t speak for anyone else, of course, but all I saw was a simple question, at which you basically exploded. Yes. _Because I found the question offensive_ Maybe YOU didn’t find it so, but I did. > [@](#): > > I’m a three-toed sloth from Nigeria. Is it hard typing with just three digits on each paw? > [@](#): > > Now, did you want to prove your point, or did you just want to be another screaming lunatic? Yes. To reiterate - “random” searches are _stupid_. If you want to find something make the search as efficient as possible. By definition, random isn’t efficient. Profiling by skin color is stupid because of the natural range of skin colors and the ability to modify it somewhat. However, terrorists, hijackers, and other bad guys do have tend to have certain characteristics in common: 1. They’re _usually_ male 2. They’re _usually_ in a certain age range In addition, we are in a conflict with certain groups that also have common characteristics, among them: 1. They’re some flavor of Muslim 2. They’re either from or have spent some signficant time abroad. Therefore, it _does_ make sense to scrutinize every male of a certain age range, with extra attention to those who are Muslim and foriegn. I happen to think that even the average Arab has some understanding that we were attacked by people who happened to look and sound like him, so pardon us if you’re innocent, but for our own safety and peace of mind we’d like to be sure - please step aside and let us look in your luggage. If you’re looking for a red-headed rapist you don’t confine your questions to brunettes. But while you’re questioning the red-head about rape, you don’t neglect the possibility you might run across a blond burgler. Which is why a white guy with the name “Mohammed” or who has spent a year studying in Kuwait should expect a little scrutiny as well. Yes, women have been Bad Guys, too - but much less often, and usually because the men have been successfully targeted for searches - the Palestinian suicide bombers being an example. The women only got involved after the Isrealis had some success in spotting and stopping the men. In the Moscow/Chechen affair, there were women but they were the minority of the offenders, and they were (supposedly) war widows, meaning they had personal revenge motives above and beyond that of many other Chechen women. I think that a more targeted search, with the _occassional_ random pull-out-of-line, would be more effective than our current, politically-correct “oh, we musn’t _offend_ anyone” approach. I also think there’s an over-reliance on technology to solve the problem. The just-buy-a-bigger-x-ray-machine approach. And if the machine DOES detect something? What then? Search by a human being. How about we just save some bucks and have all the luggage searched by hand in the first place? Spend the money on _people_ for a change - god knows, there’s an unemployment problem right now - instead of gizmos. The best computerized/mechanized system will only detect what it’s programmed to detect. People, however, will recongize an anomaly that’s NOT anticipated. After all, the Sept 11 crowd did NOT have a criminal record anywhere. They broke no laws prior to Sept 11. They didn’t fit the standard profile - but there WERE people who noticed something odd in Arizona, Florida, and Minnesota. They were, however, ignored, except in the case of Mossasui in Minnesota. If more attention had been paid to the “hey, there’s something WRONG here” feeling then history might have unfolded differently. And it’s _people_ who spotted that, not a computer program or a random search,. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passengers-getting-heads-examined/137153/29 "2002-11-19T11:39:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by j\_kat\_251 \* > Okay that just about wraps it up. Wait: why would someone say “Jumpin’ Jiminy Crickets” and then use the word fuck in the next sentence? Because I am weird, and because I do not swear by the name of any god unless I mean it. Therefore, you might hear me say “Jumping Jiminy Crickets!” but you won’t hear “Jesus H. Christ!” Maybe by now you might be concluding that I am not the typical white-bread suburban-raised American. In which case you’d be correct. ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passengers-getting-heads-examined/137153/30 "2002-11-19T11:59:19Z")
To add a random anecdote to the fray… When at University in Scotland, I travelled back to NI about 12 times a year (at holidays and suchlike). During my time I was singled out for searches and made to sign _Prevention of Terrorism_ forms (giving reasons for travel, personal information etc…) approx. **20 times in 5 years.** On ALL occasions I was stopped, it was a day (well, week) in which I hadn’t bothered to shave and was generally dressed in my _student chic_. (OK, like a scruffy git). So the guys at the airport decided that terrorists must be scruffy and uncouth, and they’d be the ones carrying the bombs and guns. Great profiling strategy! All the while I was being held, filling in forms and being subjected to searches, all the _real_ terrorists just breezed by with their Saville Row suits and leather attaché cases. Make of that what you will. [/ anecdote] ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passengers-getting-heads-examined/137153/31 "2002-11-19T13:41:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Broomstick \* > \*\*Why? Because you say so? Because someone is too lazy to look it up themselves? If I was making some whacked-out extraordinary claim I could see this, but I wasn’t. \*\* Fair enough. No problem. > [@](#): > > hard typing with just three digits on each paw? You bet your ass it is. I keep having to bakcspace. I knew you had a point, **Broomstick** , and I had an inkling it was a darn good one, but it just seems to me that it’s better to make the point clearly than to not to. Thanks for clarifying. [For me, it’s not that ranting and raving is bad, but when you’re trying to make a point, it clouds the effect that your point would have on people - and, sadly, it often (but not always) leads directly to personal attacks.] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-passengers-getting-heads-examined/137153.md?page=1)