# Airline pricing is F#@ed up! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 2, 2005, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036 "2005-02-02T20:39:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036/1 "2005-02-02T20:39:41Z")
On my trips between San Francisco and Minneapolis, I’ve been paying anywhere from $450 to $925, depending on the phase of Saturn divided by the cube root of how many emails are in my in-box. These have all been advance purchases for the exact same days of week and time of day. Now, I run across a promo for British Airways. $125 each way, New York to London - scarcely more than it would cost to go from SFO to LA and way less than to Minneapolis. And, there’s some bit about free hotel stays tossed into the deal. No free hotels in Minneapolis for me. Keep in mind, the cab ride from my home to the airport is $120. The airport shuttle van that makes four other stops between home and airport is over $90. What’s going on here? For $125, I have my choice of getting from home to the airport, SF to LA or NY to London. Oh, SFO to London is a mere $200, making the effective value of an SF - NY flight just $75. Is BA losing a buttload of money on each $125 fare, or is Yellow Cab raping me? Why can’t dollars per mile be even close to the same here? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036/2 "2005-02-02T20:49:15Z")
> [@gotpasswords](#): > > Why can’t dollars per mile be even close to the same here? Airlines have to pay for use of the airport and that cost is passed on to the passengers. BA likely gets a discout to use Heathrow because that’s their home base. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036/3 "2005-02-02T20:55:29Z")
Would an airport fee add $200-$400 per ticket per passenger to that cost? ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036/4 "2005-02-02T21:03:00Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Airlines have to pay for use of the airport and that cost is passed on to the passengers. BA likely gets a discout to use Heathrow because that’s their home base. Well, that explains the $1,925 I was once quoted on a Heathrow-O’Hare-Indianapolis roundtrip, on BA and a code-sharer. And, yes, that was economy class. I know a guy (sister’s ex-boyfriend, actually) who started his own travel business, a guy who knew pretty much from memory every major carrier’s flight schedule. Give him two cities, and he could tell you which carriers flew between them, and how often and when they flew. Even _he_ couldn’t figure out flight pricing. It is truly one of the great mysteries of capitalism. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036/5 "2005-02-02T21:15:17Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > Would an airport fee add $200-$400 per ticket per passenger to that cost? Possibly. You got landing fees & parking fees, and probably some others that I’m not aware of. > [@Duke](#): > > Well, that explains the $1,925 I was once quoted on a Heathrow-O’Hare-Indianapolis roundtrip, on BA and a code-sharer. And, yes, that was economy class. I don’t know about BA but United spends about $100 million per year for the use of O’Hare. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036/6 "2005-02-02T21:21:58Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > BA likely gets a discout to use Heathrow because that’s their home base. Not a chance. It’s landing fees are 20% more expensive than other London airports - simply because it’s been running at capacity for many years, and every slot is highly prized. The reason transatlantic flights are cheap is because there’s massive overcapacity. $125 is better for BA than yet another empty seat. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036/7 "2005-02-02T21:51:59Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Not a chance. Thanks for the correction. ---
**Author:** ![5\_time\_champ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/278dde/32.png) [@5\_time\_champ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5_time_champ)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036/8 "2005-02-02T22:25:29Z")
I am flying from St Louis to LAX on Saturday. The least expensive fare I could find was USAir $172. Pretty good price, right? But the flight goes from St Louis back east to Pittsburgh, and then back west nonstop from Pittsburgh to L.A. The trip would be more than 9 hours I can fly American for $198 non-stop from St Louis to L.A., in 4 hours. I am flying American because the shorter, more efficient flight is worth the extra $26. So then I checked the price of the flight from Pittsburgh to L.A. That flight was the same flight number, same time and was quoted at $275. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036/9 "2005-02-02T22:36:39Z")
> [@5 time champ](#): > > I am flying from St Louis to LAX on Saturday. The least expensive fare I could find was USAir $172. > > I can fly American for $198 non-stop from St Louis to L.A., in 4 hours. I am flying American because the shorter, more efficient flight is worth the extra $26. > > So then I checked the price of the flight from Pittsburgh to L.A. That flight was the same flight number, same time and was quoted at $275. 😕 Sure, because in order to compete with the direct flight from St Louis to LA, they have to offer a cheaper alternative. But the competition might not be so steep from Pittsburg to LA. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036/10 "2005-02-03T00:26:11Z")
You k now the answer, right? No one wants to go from San Francisco to Minneapolis, so there is little competition, so the price is high. I just flew from San Jose to Austin - pretty comparable distance. I can’t tell you the prices, but it was \< $100 each way. I think with Delta’s recent move we’re going to see somewhat more rational pricing - but they’re still going to sell empty seats cheap. ---
**Author:** ![recurriman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8dc957/32.png) [@recurriman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/recurriman)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036/11 "2005-02-03T00:50:54Z")
There is a very valid and simple reason for these wild price fluctuations you mention. In fact, what happens is tha[NO CARRIER] ---
**Author:** ![PastAllReason](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f07891/32.png) [@PastAllReason](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastAllReason)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036/12 "2005-02-03T02:31:25Z")
> [@recurriman](#): > > There is a very valid and simple reason for these wild price fluctuations you mention. In fact, what happens is tha[NO CARRIER] This posted edited by American Airlines? Reason: to ensure permanent confusion of the flying public. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![jweb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/71c47a/32.png) [@jweb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jweb)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036/13 "2005-02-03T04:29:51Z")
I seem to recall a Dave Barry column from several years ago where he postulized on airline pricing, saying that their main goal was to “ensure that, no matter how many people are on the flight, no two passengers paid the same amount. In fact they’re working on a system that will eventually insure that no two passengers will pay the same fare EVER.” But anyway, if you don’t mind flying late in the evening or overnight from SFO to MSP, check out Sun Country Airlines. I a couple February dates at random, and a roundtrip flight was under $170. The only caveat is that they only have one flight per day in each direction and it departs at 8:30 p.m. from MSP and 11:35 p.m. from SFO. I just had a flight on Sun Country from MSP to LAX a couple of weeks ago, and it was very nice. New 737, decent legroom, a sandwich in flight… for $180 roundtrip. ---
**Author:** ![Zap\_Rowsdower](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3da27b/32.png) [@Zap\_Rowsdower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zap_Rowsdower)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036/14 "2005-02-03T04:48:01Z")
While I have never had a major problem flying, I do think think it is a major pain in the ass and try to avoid it if possible. With the mess currently going on, I think the trains could make a bit of a comeback taking advantage of the situation. unfortunatley it doesn’t look like they will step up to the plate. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036/15 "2005-02-03T05:36:59Z")
> [@recurriman](#): > > There is a very valid and simple reason for these wild price fluctuations you mention. In fact, what happens is tha[NO CARRIER] Wow, a joke that went out with modems. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GrizzRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7ba0ec/32.png) [@GrizzRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrizzRich)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036/16 "2005-02-03T08:40:29Z")
> [@gotpasswords](#): > > /snip/ > Why can’t dollars per mile be even close to the same here? > /snip/ /travel guru hat ON/ Airline pricing was regulated by the government for many years. That ended in 1980, IIRC. So now, pricing is based on competition within a given market. There’s few low-cost carriers flying SFO-MSP, to the necessity of legacy carriers to lower their price to remain competitive is little-to-none. If you flew from Oakland to Chicago(Midway) airport, I’m sure you’d find prices MUCH lower given the same advance-purchase parameters; even though the distance you’d be flying is equivalent. Why would it be cheaper? Because Southwest Airlines low fares forces legacy carriers in the same market to remain competitive. While in your city-pair market, the legacy carriers are making up the difference for revenue lost in other markets. Buying airline travel is like buying gas. There’s no guarantee what the price will be tomorrow. Heck, there’s no guarantee what the price will be in thirty seconds! /travel guru hat OFF/ ---
**Author:** ![butler1850](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@butler1850](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butler1850)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036/17 "2005-02-03T17:27:40Z")
My favorite was a flight I wanted to take from Boston to DC National in '89 while I was in college. Round trips from BOS to DCX was more expensive than MHT-BOS-DCX. Even though the BOS-DCX. So, to save over $100, I took the flight from Manchester NH, to Boston, then to DC, and on the return got off at Boston. The only snag was on the return, I was unable to check any luggage, as it would have continued to MHT. (this was also before MHT became a “real” airport like it is today). It made no sense, but what in airline travel ever does? ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036/18 "2005-02-03T17:41:20Z")
> [@](#): > > Keep in mind, the cab ride from my home to the airport is $120. The airport shuttle van that makes four other stops between home and airport is over $90. Where do you live? The shuttle van I ride costs $45, and I live in Napa. If you’re a $120 cab ride away, maybe you’d be better off flying from Oakland or San Jose. ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036/19 "2005-02-03T19:18:24Z")
Whenever this question is raised on the SDMD I point to this link:- [http://www.luc.edu/faculty/eventa/archive/su483we/yield.htm](http://www.luc.edu/faculty/eventa/archive/su483we/yield.htm) This explains that the airline industry uses a very sophisticated computer program called _yield management_ which tries to balance to sometimes opposite needs of filling a plane and maximising income. Other industries , including hotels use the same systems. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036/20 "2005-02-03T19:36:41Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > Where do you live? The shuttle van I ride costs $45, and I live in Napa. If you’re a $120 cab ride away, maybe you’d be better off flying from Oakland or San Jose. That was for a ride SFO-Fremont. I moved between booking and flying, so that’s why the distance. Now, I’m using SJC. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036.md?page=2)