# Airline pricing is F#@ed up! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 2, 2005, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036 "2005-02-02T20:39:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Gfab912](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a9a28c/32.png) [@Gfab912](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfab912)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036/21 "2005-02-04T01:05:17Z")
I’m surprised that no one mentioned this point (or maybe I missed it)… did you guys know that some foreign airlines like British Airways and Air France are government-owned airlines? That’s part of the reason they can slash prices they way they do. Why do you think the Concorde flew for so many years, because it was making a profit?!? LOL Deep pockets, my friends, deep pockets! ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036/22 "2005-02-04T01:50:57Z")
> [@gotpasswords](#): > > That was for a ride SFO-Fremont. I moved between booking and flying, so that’s why the distance. Now, I’m using SJC. Holy crap. :eek: I live in Fremont also. You need to get someone to give you a ride. Ever thought of taking BART? **GrizzRich** , the cheap way of going from the Bay Area to Chicago is ATA, SFO to Midway. My daughter was in college in Chicago, so this I know well. Southwest is good for other destinations. The Bay Area has the great advantage of three airports close by, all closer than any when I lived in Princeton. Sometimes you have to check all three to get the best deal. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036/23 "2005-02-04T01:56:47Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > **GrizzRich** , the cheap way of going from the Bay Area to Chicago is ATA, SFO to Midway. My daughter was in college in Chicago, so this I know well. Southwest is good for other destinations. I flew ATA in the late summer last year with maybe 2 weeks’ notice, and it was less than $250 round trip, all inclusive, from SFO to Midway. The prices seemed to stay in the $200-$300 level for most of the summer and fall. ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036/24 "2005-02-04T07:13:40Z")
> [@Gfab912](#): > > I’m surprised that no one mentioned this point (or maybe I missed it)… did you guys know that some foreign airlines like British Airways and Air France are government-owned airlines? That’s part of the reason they can slash prices they way they do. Why do you think the Concorde flew for so many years, because it was making a profit?!? LOL Deep pockets, my friends, deep pockets! Not true. BA has not been government owned for at least 10 years. I think that this also applies to Air France. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036/25 "2005-02-04T07:34:07Z")
I don’t know if this applies to Air France, but you should know that government owned does not mean the same thing as government run. The government can own a business (be the majority or sole stakeholder) without necessarily funding it (paying its operating expenses) or running it (telling it what to do). ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036/26 "2005-02-04T10:21:30Z")
I understand from a friend at Deutsche Bank that British Airways is actually in pretty sound financial shape for an airline these days, and _definitely_ better off than **all** US Airlines. I suspect this is part of a concerted attempt to either see off some competition or force the US taxpayer to shoulder yet more of the burden of keeping these competing planes in the sky. However, I have absolutely no idea whatsoever how this strategy gets translated into actual seat prices on actual scheduled flights: the computer models they use are _enormous_, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036/27 "2005-02-04T10:25:40Z")
**Gfab912** , major US Airlines actually get far more government assistance than British Airways, which was fully privatised in 1987. It kept Concorde going at a loss purely for the prestige (Virgin Airways wanted to buy the Concordes and run them at a similar loss but BA refused). ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036/28 "2005-02-04T10:36:56Z")
At the time of the Paris crash, Concorde was making a good profit for BA, having been turned around after a loss-making period in the 1980s. Obviously, with both the crash and 9/11, things changed dramatically. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036/29 "2005-02-04T10:41:56Z")
And FWIW, the French government holds about a 20% stake in Air France KLM. If you want an example of an old-style national airline being constantly bailed out, Alitalia is a far better example. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lodoen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b3f665/32.png) [@Jeff\_Lodoen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lodoen)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036/30 "2005-02-04T12:00:02Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > At the time of the Paris crash, Concorde was making a good profit for BA, having been turned around after a loss-making period in the 1980s. Obviously, with both the crash and 9/11, things changed dramatically. A PBS documentary on the Concorde aired last week. One of the ways they turned around the losses was polling their passengers as to what they thought the price was. Most people didn’t even know! So they raised the prices until some ‘pain’ was inflicted. No need to subsidise the ultra-rich. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036/31 "2005-02-04T19:45:11Z")
> [@SentientMeat](#): > > I understand from a friend at Deutsche Bank that British Airways is actually in pretty sound financial shape for an airline these days, and _definitely_ better off than **all** US Airlines. Spot on - today, they reported [better-than-expected](http://www.newsisfree.com/iclick/i,70907870,697,f/) profits. > [@](#): > > I suspect this is part of a concerted attempt to either see off some competition or force the US taxpayer to shoulder yet more of the burden of keeping these competing planes in the sky. Does Chapter 11 protection, affecting various American airlines, place restrictions on whether they can run hefty price-cutting promotions, of the kind we’re talking about with BA? ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2005, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036/32 "2005-02-05T00:26:30Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Holy crap. I live in Fremont also. You need to get someone to give you a ride. Ever thought of taking BART? > > No one wants to go from San Francisco to Minneapolis, so there is little competition, so the price is high This was for a 11:40 PM arrival. Friends are all asleep, and so is BART. ☹ Nobody wants to go to MSP? Guess again. These flights are always overbooked. Only way I was able to get a seat on a SJC-MSP flight I’m taking in a couple weeks was to use a pile of miles and upgrade to first. Coach was sold out over three weeks in advance - not even a middle seat was available. And this is on a 757 or A320, not some inky-dinky regional jet. ---
**Author:** ![zippyh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/839c29/32.png) [@zippyh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zippyh)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2005, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036/33 "2005-02-05T04:10:29Z")
Lookup “fortress hub” in NWA’s dictionary and you’ll see a picture of MSP. ---
**Author:** ![D-bear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@D-bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D-bear)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2005, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036/34 "2005-02-05T05:44:25Z")
Just checked Frontier Airlines website for 2/14 comming back on 2/21 a one stop SFO/MSP/SFO is $293.39 all fees and taxes included. Five flights listed some are connecting and none of them are non-stops, but still you aren’t totally held hostage by Northwest. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-pricing-is-f-ed-up/288036.md?page=1)