# Airline selling empty, paid-for, seat **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 16, 2017, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408 "2017-07-16T16:46:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/1 "2017-07-16T16:46:43Z")
Ann Coulter is angry, because Delta Airlines [sold the empty seat she’d paid for](https://www.yahoo.com/news/ann-coulter-enraged-delta-allegedly-033527270.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=fb) to another passenger. When airlines are overbooked, they can bump passengers from a flight. Recently, a family was [kicked off of a flight](https://thepointsguy.com/2017/05/family-kicked-off-delta-flight/) because they would not surrender a seat. I understand that buying a ticket does not guaranty a person will be allowed to fly, and I’ve heard this is spelled out in the airlines’ Contract of Carriage. Here is [Delta’s Contract of Carriage](https://www.delta.com/content/dam/delta-www/pdfs/legal/contract_of_carriage_dom.pdf) (.pdf). I don’t see anything that specifically addresses overbooking, nor the reselling of an unoccupied seat. The nearest thing I see is this: > [@](#): > > Delta may refuse to transport any passenger, or may remove any passenger from its aircraft, when refusal to transport or removal of the passenger is reasonably necessary in Delta’s sole discretion for the passenger’s comfort or safety, for the comfort or safety of other passengers or Delta employees, or for the prevention of damage to the property of Delta or its passengers or employees. By way of example, and without limitation, Delta may refuse to transport or may remove passengers from its aircraft in any of the following situations: [list of 11 reasons, including if the passenger is smelly] The list puts all of the blame on the passenger. Can any legally-minded Dopers point to where, in the Contract of Carriage, it says that passengers may be denied service because Delta wants to give someone else the seat? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/2 "2017-07-16T16:53:53Z")
She should charter a private jet if she doesn’t want commoners sitting near her. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/3 "2017-07-16T17:03:44Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Ann Coulter is angry, because Delta Airlines [sold the empty seat she’d paid for](https://www.yahoo.com/news/ann-coulter-enraged-delta-allegedly-033527270.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=fb) to another passenger. When airlines are overbooked, they can bump passengers from a flight. Recently, a family was [kicked off of a flight](https://thepointsguy.com/2017/05/family-kicked-off-delta-flight/) because they would not surrender a seat. I understand that buying a ticket does not guaranty a person will be allowed to fly, and I’ve heard this is spelled out in the airlines’ Contract of Carriage. > Here is [Delta’s Contract of Carriage](https://www.delta.com/content/dam/delta-www/pdfs/legal/contract_of_carriage_dom.pdf) (.pdf). I don’t see anything that specifically addresses overbooking, nor the reselling of an unoccupied seat. The nearest thing I see is this: > The list puts all of the blame on the passenger. Can any legally-minded Dopers point to where, in the Contract of Carriage, it says that passengers may be denied service because Delta wants to give someone else the seat? I don’t see how she was “denied service.” she stayed on the flight in the paid-for seat she occupied. IMO it’s no different than if I was to buy a plane ticket and then miss the flight. The airline is going to put a butt in that seat if they can, even though I paid for the ticket. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/4 "2017-07-16T17:31:12Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > She should charter a private jet if she doesn’t want commoners sitting near her. But she didn’t. > [@jz78817](#): > > I don’t see how she was “denied service.” she stayed on the flight in the paid-for seat she occupied. IMO it’s no different than if I was to buy a plane ticket and then miss the flight. The airline is going to put a butt in that seat if they can, even though I paid for the ticket. She was not denied service. She’d paid for an extra seat so that she could have extra room. To me, this is no different from someone buying an extra seat for a musical instrument, and then having to have the instrument put into the hold to make room for another passenger. The GQ question is: Where in the Contract of Carriage say that they can do this? ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/5 "2017-07-16T17:34:01Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > She should charter a private jet if she doesn’t want commoners sitting near her. I haven’t flown in years, and even then, I wouldn’t have looked at anything beyond coach. But hows the math on upgrading to from two cattle car seats to a single First Class (or better) in one of those airliners where there’s really no one within a few feet of you? If the two seats cost her $800 (total) and bumping up to a big pod like first class dealy is $1500, maybe that’s what she needs to be doing. OTOH, if it’s $8000 and she was on a 45 minute flight, whatever, but she also needs to suck it up or drive. As for giving away her seat, I can understand that. It was empty, they filled it. As far as the rules, here’s how I see it. The rules clearly state that they can, and will, overbook the plane. From there, they also clearly state that they can, and will, deny people from boarding when the plane is overbooked, first voluntarily, then involuntarily. It seems that her invisible friend was denied from boarding. Who’s name was the extra ticket in? If it was in her name, she can’t board twice. If it was in someone else’s name, that person never boarded. As for her refund she never got. Maybe they sent her invisible friend on the next plane? I also noticed a line in the rule book that says you can’t make fictitious bookings. I know they allow (request) people to make two reservations if they can’t, physically, fit in one space. But if you just don’t want to sit near people (and not for some medical/psychiatric) reason or you want a place to put your crap so you don’t have to check it, go to first class. Not make it harder for other people to get on the plane (and shame _them_ for it). Tl;DR, in a time when most everyone knows that planes get overbooked. I don’t think she has a leg to stand on when her empty seat was the first to be resold. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/6 "2017-07-16T17:40:49Z")
I’m not seeing where Delta sold “the empty seat she’d paid for”. Coulter has a legitimate gripe if she paid for one level of service and was reassigned to a lower level of service without compensation or refund of the fare difference. If that happened then I think Coulter would have reasonably clarified that point in her tweets so I assume that did not actually happen. But if her complaint is that she did not get the specific seat she had reserved then I may feel a teeny tiny bit of sympathy but airlines do reserve the right to move your around like that. And my guess is that moving around single flyers is probably more likely than moving groups since at least some vague effort seems to be made to seat together those travelers flying together. And if the airline waited until passengers were already aboard to force a move then that is a problem. But it seems given Coulter’s vitriol at the gate agents, that this happened before boarding. Cry me a river, Ann. As to Delta’s specific policy on seat assignments, it can be found in the linked contract of carriage at Rule 240: > [@](#): > > … > RULE 240: FLIGHT DELAYS/CANCELLATIONS > A. Flight Schedules are Not Guaranteed > Delta will exercise reasonable efforts to carry passengers and their baggage according to Delta’s published schedules and the schedule reflected on the passenger’s ticket, but published schedules, flight times, aircraft type,\*\* seat assignments\*\*, and similar details reflected in the ticket or Delta’s published schedules are not guaranteed and form no part of this contract. **emphasis** mine ETA: Overbooking is covered at Rule 115 (c) ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/7 "2017-07-16T17:46:13Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > The GQ question is: Where in the Contract of Carriage say that they can do this? maybe it would fall under a “fictitious booking?” **E) Fictitious Bookings** Multiple bookings of a fictitious nature are prohibited by Delta. In the event Delta determines that an individual has confirmed such bookings to one or more destination(s) on or about the same date(s), the carrier reserves the right to cancel all confirmed space associated with the multiple reservations without notice to the passenger or the person making the booking. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/8 "2017-07-16T17:46:29Z")
WRT the fictitious booking thing, I just figured that out. People could book themselves on flights they’re not going to take, show up, check in and wait to get bumped from the flight and get the (extra) money. Delta could very well play that card here and suggest that she was trying to do that. Here’s the rule: "Multiple bookings of a fictitious nature are prohibited by Delta. In the event Delta determines that an individual has confirmed such bookings to one or more destination(s) on or about the same date(s), the carrier reserves the right to cancel all confirmed space associated with the multiple reservations without notice to the passenger or the person making the booking. " They could simply say that they didn’t catch it until afterwards, but because she had multiple tickets booked in her name at the same time to the same place, they canceled one of them. Sorry, not sorry. ETA, FTR, I wouldn’t have been ninja’d if I hadn’t spent all that time trying to figure out what the refund policy is on them cancelling fictitious bookings and reading up on the Occupy Space rule (it only says they’ll cancel your return flight if you don’t Occupy Space on the departure)…also, I forgot, I mentioned it my last post, this started out as an edit that took way too long to write. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/9 "2017-07-16T17:48:36Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > I’m not seeing where Delta sold “the empty seat she’d paid for”. From the link [emphasis mine]: ‘Coulter called Delta “the worst airline in America” and claimed the airline gave away the “extra room seat” she purchased before the flight departed.’ > [@Iggy](#): > > ETA: Overbooking is covered at Rule 115 (c) This is the answer I was looking for in the OP. I don’t know how I missed it – twice. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/10 "2017-07-16T17:49:52Z")
Missing from this story is whether she had both boarding passes scanned when she boarded the plane? I believe that it’s the final gate scan that determines whether the seat can be released to standby passengers or not. Most likely, she simply didn’t understand this and assumed that waltzing on the plane with two tickets in her hand was sufficient. According to [this flyertalk thread](https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-air-lines-skymiles/1218906-how-do-you-book-2-seats-one-person.html), the official Delta procedure is to book the ticket under “Extra Seat [Last Name]” and then inform the gate agent who should take care of it for you. That there’s apparently an official procedure in place indicates to me that Ann simply didn’t understand what was going on. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/11 "2017-07-16T17:54:16Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > But she didn’t. > > She was not denied service. She’d paid for an extra seat so that she could have extra room. To me, this is no different from someone buying an extra seat for a musical instrument, and then having to have the instrument put into the hold to make room for another passenger. > > The GQ question is: Where in the Contract of Carriage say that they can do this? Actually Delta has a specific policy (Rule 190 (D) ) on purchasing a seat to use to transport, in the cabin, baggage such as a musical instrument. The seat baggage must fly in the same cabin (first class, coach class, etc…) as the accompanying passenger and cannot obstruct an emergency evacuation. You must be able to secure the seat baggage with the seat belt. Otherwise it is pretty much like any other seat for a ticketed passenger. Delta could deny boarding but cannot unilaterally move that seat baggage to the baggage hold in order to resell the seat to another passenger anymore than they could remove a paying passenger without denied boarding compensation to resell their seat to another passenger. I believe what Ms Coulter paid for is a seat with extra legroom, not a second seat that she wished to leave empty so as not to have another passenger sit next to her. This is a faint upgrade from standard coach and seems to be popular with taller passengers who prefer a seat that does not require them to have their knees jammed in the back of the seat in front of them for the entire flight. Ms Coulter stands 6ft tall so I can imagine she might appreciate the extra legroom. Formally Delta calls this extra room seating the [Delta Comfort+](https://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/support/faqs/booking-your-trip/delta-comfort-plus-faqs.html). ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/12 "2017-07-16T17:54:26Z")
Anne needs to read all of the small print. Delta agreed to transport her from one place to another. They are not required to do it in a particular seat or even on an airplane. She might have an argument if she had obtained two boarding passes and checked in twice and sat in both seats alternately. But, probably not - Delta always wins! ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/13 "2017-07-16T17:58:42Z")
Well, they shouldn’t take money for a service they then refuse to perform. I doubt if the fact it’s Miss Coulter should affect one’s view. [However, were it anyone not a beloved American Icon, then we’d never have heard about it in the first place. It helps to have her bully-pulpit.] ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/14 "2017-07-16T18:01:20Z")
LOL - she paid extra so nobody had to sit next to her. Sounds like a good deal to me! ---
**Author:** ![Hocus\_Pocus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/41988e/32.png) [@Hocus\_Pocus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hocus_Pocus)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/15 "2017-07-16T18:08:16Z")
It should also be noted that in her tweets Coulter lashed out at the union. The only unionized employees at Delta are the pilots. Typical republican. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/16 "2017-07-16T18:18:26Z")
Why does Ann Coulter hate capitalism? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/17 "2017-07-16T18:30:37Z")
> [@Hocus\_Pocus](#): > > Typical republican. **Moderator Note** **Hocus Pocus** , political jabs are not permitted in GQ. No warning issued, but don’t do this again. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/18 "2017-07-16T18:34:15Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > LOL - she paid extra so nobody had to sit next to her. Sounds like a good deal to me! > [@Gorsnak](#): > > Why does Ann Coulter hate capitalism? **Moderator Note** This thread is about airline policy on selling empty but paid for seats. Commentary about Coulter personally, Republicans, and other extraneous aspects are out of place and may be moderated. Thanks to those who have kept this thread on track so far. I don’t want to see this hijacked. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/19 "2017-07-16T18:34:28Z")
I feel like there are important facts that are still unclear. Did she pay for two seats and they gave away one? Did she pay for an extra-space seat and get bumped to a regular seat? Something else? ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/20 "2017-07-16T18:37:34Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I feel like there are important facts that are still unclear. Did she pay for two seats and they gave away one? Did she pay for an extra-space seat and get bumped to a regular seat? Something else? yeah, when **Iggy** brought that up that can change the whole discussion. If she bought a second seat without the intention of occupying it, I’d think the airline would have a leg to stand on. if she bought a seat with extra legroom (ostensibly paying more for it) and got re-assigned, I could see being a bit put out. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408.md?page=2)