# Airline selling empty, paid-for, seat **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 16, 2017, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408 "2017-07-16T16:46:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/41 "2017-07-17T01:46:12Z")
Rule 135 C in the Contract of Carriage says Delta can cancel the reservation for “Failure to Occupy Space.” So if Coulter bought two tickets but only took one seat, the airline can give the other seat to a passenger. In fact, the way I read it, they could have canceled BOTH reservations and thrown her off the flight entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/42 "2017-07-17T02:33:30Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > Horseshit, you clearly made a political jab at Fox News. **Moderator Note** The post was moderated; there is no need for you to comment further on it. If you have a problem, report it. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/43 "2017-07-17T07:34:35Z")
Update: Per [this Reuters news article](http://www.reuters.com/article/us-airlines-delta-coulter-idUSKBN1A20AF), Delta refunded $30 to Ms Coulter and apologized that she did not get her Preferred seat in a tweet Sunday afternoon. Delta also tweeted “Additionally, your insults about our other customers and employees are unacceptable and unnecessary” in a second tweet. Apparently [both tweets](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DE5GmgMXUAE8yyV.jpg) have since been deleted by Delta. Preferred Seating is what **Hocus Pocus** linked to in post #30 above. Good catch there. So, Ms Coulter apparently did have a legitimate gripe. It appears she booked a Preferred Seat and paid an additional charge for it but was moved to a different seat that was not a Preferred Seat, thus the refund. Maybe in the future she will handle any complaint in a more businesslike manner. Catching flies. Honey. Vinegar. All that jazz. ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/44 "2017-07-17T08:43:31Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > Apparently [both tweets](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DE5GmgMXUAE8yyV.jpg) have since been deleted by Delta. The tweets are [still](https://twitter.com/Delta/status/886714150038249477) [there](https://twitter.com/Delta/status/886714198880866305), but Twitter considers them replies so they only appear in the “Tweets & replies” timeline. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/45 "2017-07-17T12:31:00Z")
I’m tall. And 210 lbs. The idea of booking an extra seat appeals to me. Don’t the airlines require it if you don’t fit into their diminishing space? WTF? I’d be very pissed off if a seat I booked was taken away. They sold it twice. My Wife and I recently took a 4 hour flight. Had the ‘stretch’ seating. Didn’t mater. They are making the ‘cushioning’ so thin that it may has well been a park bench. This is one of the reasons my 5’2" 115lb Wife will be driving 1200 miles each way to see her family in the fall. F’em. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/46 "2017-07-17T12:38:02Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > WTF? I’d be very pissed off if a seat I booked was taken away. They sold it twice. It kind of depends on the circumstances, though. I’m fine with an airline saying that if a passenger doesn’t _need_ the extra seat to be safely accommodated, it’s subject to being taken back (and refunded!) for use by passengers who missed connections, emergency deadheading, etc. (I wonder, is an empty seat entitled to denied boarding compensation?) ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/47 "2017-07-17T12:51:50Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > I’m having trouble understanding why the airline moved Coulter. She says that they moved her and gave her booked seat to another passenger (apparently a woman who doesn’t appear to be very big). Why didn’t they just put that women in the seat they moved Coulter to and leave Coulter alone? According to the airline’s [statement](http://news.delta.com/delta-s-response-political-analyst-ann-coulter-s-public-attack-airline-s-employees-customers), they “inadvertently moved Coulter to 15A, a window seat, when working to accommodate several passengers with seating requests.” Which sounds like there was a group of people that wanted to sit together, and while finding them seats, they ended up giving her seat to one of those people. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/48 "2017-07-17T13:24:53Z")
Good lord, people. [ul] [li]She did NOT buy a 2nd (empty) seat, so stop saying that is part of this[/li][li]She did what I’ve done dozens of times, which is pay a little more for a Comfort+ seat.[/li][li]There was some need at the gate where Delta had more people who had paid for Comfort+ than they had seats for (this is critical)[/li][li]Delta had to move someone to another “regular” seat. It was AC.[/li][/ul] This happens everyday, probably hundreds of time a day. It has happened to me a bunch of times, and I am a high level Medallion member. Those of you saying she paid for the seat, she has every right to the seat and should never be moved, would probabaly not want to fly in an airline industry with that ironclad of a rule. Here is how I bet this went down. I’m purely speculating, but I’ve seen it happen often. [ul] [li]Delta has x number of Comfort+ seats on this flight[/li][li]AC sees that on the website, and spends her $30 to upgrade (earlier the day of the flight).[/li][li]That means she had purchased a regular coach seat originally.[/li][li]Meanwhile, the lady who wound up in her seat (pure speculation here) was a higher Medallion level than AC[/li][li]High Medallion Lady missed an earlier connection because of weather delays, flight delay, whatever.[/li][li]She now winds up on the same flight with AC.[/li][li]Thus, Delta has to move somebody. Is it High Medallion Lady, or is it AC?[/li][li]AC was willing to sit in regular coach earlier that day. Remember, she did NOT buy a Comfort+ seat originally.[/li][/ul] Thus, she gets booted. That’s life. That’s the modern travel world. If you want a strict “I bought this seat, I have ultimate right to it”, then you have to be okay with the airlines saying “Oh, you missed your flight because of traffic on the way to the airport? So sorry. You cannot be booked on another flight. Your empty seat is now in the air on it’s way to it’s destination.” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/49 "2017-07-17T14:00:18Z")
To everyone: > [@leftfield6](#): > > Good lord, people. > [ul] > [li]She did NOT buy a 2nd (empty) seat, so stop saying that is part of this…[/li][/ul] This was pointed out early in the thread, and I acknowledged I was wrong about the situation in post #21: > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > On re-reading, it looks like **Iggy** is correct, and I am wrong. I read it as Coulter having bought an extra seat so she would have extra room, but on re-read it looks like she bought a single seat with extra legroom. The GQ came to my mind because of the Coulter story (that I misunderstood). I’m beginning to think I should stop giving examples when I have questions, because the **General Question** I had was where in Delta’s Contract of Carriage does it say people can be removed from their seats? That Coulter did not buy a second seat, which was then denied to her, is irrelevant. **Iggy** answered my question in post #6. (Geez, I’m cranky before I finish half a pot of coffee.) ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/50 "2017-07-17T14:11:31Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > …She did what I’ve done dozens of times, which is pay a little more for a Comfort+ seat. Reports say she had a “Preferred Seat”. I believe those are one step down from Comfort+? Still a small fee to upgrade to a Preferred Seat (evidently $30 in this case), but I don’t think you get the extra legroom of Comfort+ unless it’s an exit row seat. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/51 "2017-07-17T14:22:07Z")
There _was no extra seat_. She was moved from her preferred seat with a bit of extra leg room for some reason (the most plausible explanation I’ve seen so far is that it had to do with arranging for people able and willing to assist evacuation to be in the emergency-exit row). ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/52 "2017-07-17T14:25:16Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > To everyone: > > This was pointed out early in the thread, and I acknowledged I was wrong about the situation in post #21: > The GQ came to my mind because of the Coulter story (that I misunderstood). I’m beginning to think I should stop giving examples when I have questions, because the **General Question** I had was where in Delta’s Contract of Carriage does it say people can be removed from their seats? That Coulter did not buy a second seat, which was then denied to her, is irrelevant. **Iggy** answered my question in post #6. > > (Geez, I’m cranky before I finish half a pot of coffee.) No worries mate! I was not digging at you, you corrected your earlier mistake. It happens. But others keep bringing up this mystical “2nd seat”. I’m enjoying my 2nd cup now! ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/53 "2017-07-17T14:26:53Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > No worries mate! I was not digging at you, you corrected your earlier mistake. It happens. But others keep bringing up this mystical “2nd seat”. > > I’m enjoying my 2nd cup now! Is that actually a 2nd cup or just an extra-large cup? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/54 "2017-07-17T14:42:16Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > There _was no extra seat_. Which, as I said, is irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/55 "2017-07-17T14:57:59Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Reports say she had a “Preferred Seat”. I believe those are one step down from Comfort+? Still a small fee to upgrade to a Preferred Seat (evidently $30 in this case), but I don’t think you get the extra legroom of Comfort+ unless it’s an exit row seat. Could be. In the pic AC posted where she was attempting to shame the lady who “took” her seat, it does appear to be an exit row. Same rules apply though. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/56 "2017-07-17T14:59:39Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Is that actually a 2nd cup or just an extra-large cup? > > 😃 Who says it can’t be both? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/57 "2017-07-17T15:51:53Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > Update: > > Per [this Reuters news article](http://www.reuters.com/article/us-airlines-delta-coulter-idUSKBN1A20AF), Delta refunded $30 to Ms Coulter and apologized that she did not get her Preferred seat in a tweet Sunday afternoon. Delta also tweeted “Additionally, your insults about our other customers and employees are unacceptable and unnecessary” in a second tweet. Apparently [both tweets](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DE5GmgMXUAE8yyV.jpg) have since been deleted by Delta. > > Preferred Seating is what **Hocus Pocus** linked to in post #30 above. Good catch there. > > So, Ms Coulter apparently did have a legitimate gripe. It appears she booked a Preferred Seat and paid an additional charge for it but was moved to a different seat that was not a Preferred Seat, thus the refund. Maybe in the future she will handle any complaint in a more businesslike manner. Catching flies. Honey. Vinegar. All that jazz. I’d be miffed if I bought a larger space, and they moved me into a smaller one. Presumably, I chose to pay extra because I preferred paying extra and having more space. So bumping me back down and only refunding the difference is clearly a hit to her. Of course, last time I paid for more space, the guy in the middle seat weighed about 350 pounds, all of it sticking out to either side of him. I was literally unable to lower the armrest, because he was in the way. Yeah, I could stretch my legs, but I had to distort my shoulders for the entire trip. I’m sure it was worse for him, but I was pretty grumpy. He should have purchased two coach seats. Or one first class seat. I wonder if he realized that “extra space” was only fore&aft, and had the same width as regular seats. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/58 "2017-07-17T17:04:34Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > Could be. In the pic AC posted where she was attempting to shame the lady who “took” her seat, it does appear to be an exit row. Ah, that suggests a scenario that would explain it: she was originally seated in the emergency exit row, and when asked if she was willing to assist other passengers in the event of emergency, she probably replied that other passengers could die in a fire if they didn’t have the gumption to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps like Jesus intended. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/59 "2017-07-17T18:59:28Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > If you want a strict “I bought this seat, I have ultimate right to it”, then you have to be okay with the airlines saying “Oh, you missed your flight because of traffic on the way to the airport? So sorry. You cannot be booked on another flight. Your empty seat is now in the air on it’s way to it’s destination.” Yes, I am OK with that. Not just OK. That’s how it should be. That’s how it works with nearly everything else. I don’t get to go to a different performance (usually there isn’t even a different perfo4rmance to attend) if I buy expensive front row seats and can’t make it for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408/60 "2017-07-17T19:06:21Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Ah, that suggests a scenario that would explain it: she was originally seated in the emergency exit row, and when asked if she was willing to assist other passengers in the event of emergency, she probably replied that other passengers could die in a fire if they didn’t have the gumption to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps like Jesus intended. **Moderator Warning** Since I’ve already issued two notes concerning political jabs in this thread, this one is going to be a warning. Colibri General Questions Moderator MODERATOR INSTRUCTIONS This thread is about airline policy. No further commentary about Coulter personally, or politics. Further remarks of this kind will be subject to a warning. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-selling-empty-paid-for-seat/791408.md?page=4)