# Airline sued for saying "Eenie, Meenie, Minie, Moe" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 23, 2004, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-sued-for-saying-eenie-meenie-minie-moe/225698 "2004-01-23T01:56:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2004, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-sued-for-saying-eenie-meenie-minie-moe/225698/21 "2004-01-23T12:07:45Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > You should sue the manufacturers of Nik-Nak corn chips, in that case. 1. Sue snack company 2. ?? 3. Profit!! ---
**Author:** ![emulsified](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emulsified/32/2915_2.png) [@emulsified](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emulsified)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2004, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-sued-for-saying-eenie-meenie-minie-moe/225698/22 "2004-01-23T14:45:07Z")
With apologies to MLK jr., I have a little dream of my own. I have a dream that some day people will come to realize that it is possible to say or do something that offends someone else even if they did not intend to offend at all. I have a dream that those people will recognize that and feel honest regret at having offended someone else–again–even though they did not intend offense. I have a dream that those offended will in those cases learn to recognize that offense was not intended and be overcome with understanding and forgiveness. It saddens me that we’re so far from what seems so simple. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2004, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-sued-for-saying-eenie-meenie-minie-moe/225698/23 "2004-01-23T15:57:34Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > If the other was ever in vogue, it was well before me or pretty much anyone of my generation would have had ears to hear it. I dare say it’s not an age difference between us that allowed me to hear the racist version. I think it’s more a reflection on those around you that you were shielded from that version. Here in the South, it was, and still is, not uncommon. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2004, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-sued-for-saying-eenie-meenie-minie-moe/225698/24 "2004-01-23T16:48:35Z")
This was posted in [Legal Briefs Newletter](http://www.nationalcenter.org/LB26.html) > [@](#): > > The plaintiffs say the modern-day next line of the rhyme, “catch a tiger by the toe,” once was sung with a reference to the “n-word,” making a mere mention of the song a coded reference to a minority group. > > Southwest now may expect calls from Jacques Chirac and from PETA. According to the Oxford Dictionary of Nursery Rhymes, both “Frenchman” and “chicken” each once were sung where we now sing “tiger.” > > That’s not all. Tinkers, spiders, beggars, sailors, young men and various other persons and animals historically have been mentioned in the spot now graced with “tiger.” > > The case goes to trial in federal court in September 2003. > Sources: Sisters Suing Southwest Over ‘Racist Rhyme,’ AP, 2/10/03, downloaded from [http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,78139,00.html](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,78139,00.html) on April 28, 2003 > > “Rhyme Doesn’t Fly on Southwest: Airline Sued Over Nursery Rhyme,” John Stossel, Commentary for ABC News, April 12, 2003, downloaded from > [http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/GiveMeABreak/stossel\_gmabrhyme030411.html](http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/GiveMeABreak/stossel_gmabrhyme030411.html) on April 28, 2003 > > Interview with Melanie Jones of Southwest Airlines on April 29, 2003 > > Oxford Book of Nursery Rhymes > > Tort du Jour in this edition of Legal Briefs may be reprinted provided source is credited. Who says lawyers have no sense of humour? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tinker\_Grey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tinker_grey/32/8136_2.png) [@Tinker\_Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tinker_Grey)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2004, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-sued-for-saying-eenie-meenie-minie-moe/225698/25 "2004-01-23T17:11:55Z")
> [@Tapioca Dextrin](#): > > This was posted in [Legal Briefs Newletter](http://www.nationalcenter.org/LB26.html) > > > [@](#): > > > > That’s not all. Tinkers, spiders, beggars, sailors, young men and various other persons and animals historically have been mentioned in the spot now graced with “tiger.” I want my slice of the pie, DAMMIT! Who wants to be my lawyer?!? Tinker ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2004, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-sued-for-saying-eenie-meenie-minie-moe/225698/26 "2004-01-23T21:51:34Z")
> [@TwistofFate](#): > > If they win this case, I’m going to sue anyone who uses the term “Paddy-Wack”. I guess you missed the first message in this thread, in which it was stated that they had LOST the case. The verdict was announced yesterday. The airline won. Ed ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2004, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-sued-for-saying-eenie-meenie-minie-moe/225698/27 "2004-01-23T22:17:18Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > I dare say it’s not an age difference between us that allowed me to hear the racist version. I think it’s more a reflection on those around you that you were shielded from that version. Here in the South, it was, and still is, not uncommon. Entirely possible, and likely, given what I’ve read from other people so far on this thread. Regional differences are likely, as well, since I grew up in central Pennsylvania. And I think the only time my parents EVER used the n-word was in reference to Brazil nuts, which they both called n-----toes. Used to drive me crazy wincing whenever they did that. ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2004, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-sued-for-saying-eenie-meenie-minie-moe/225698/28 "2004-01-23T23:02:07Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Entirely possible, and likely, given what I’ve read from other people so far on this thread. Regional differences are likely, as well, since I grew up in central Pennsylvania. And I think the only time my parents EVER used the n-word was in reference to Brazil nuts, which they both called n-----toes. Used to drive me crazy wincing whenever they did that. Don’t feel bad. My Grandma still calls them that, and she’s black. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-sued-for-saying-eenie-meenie-minie-moe/225698/29 "2004-01-25T15:55:05Z")
> [@Roches](#): > > To those who grew up with the ‘clean’ version, did you actually say ‘tiger’ or was it ‘tigger’? (And did you use the second line, ‘if he hollers, let him go’?) The version I heard was with ‘tigger’, so it was eventually obvious that it was formerly something else. Also, tigers don’t have toes, and they don’t ‘holler’. That being said, I’ve met a few people who were surprised to learn that there’s a racist version of the rhyme. I only knew the “tiger” version - “Tigger” was a character on Winnie-the-Pooh. And I think we used he/him or it/it interchangeably. As for “hollers”, as a six year old with little actual experience of tigers in real life and the noises they make, I don’t think I even thought about it. “Brazil nuts” was the only way I’d ever heard them referred to until I was well into my 20s. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-sued-for-saying-eenie-meenie-minie-moe/225698/30 "2004-01-25T15:57:10Z")
shoot - hit “post” too quickly. I also heard a third pronunciation of “tiger” in this rhyme, from some of my buddies - “tayger”, which was a not uncommon pronunciation of the word on the Canadian Prairies at that time. Suggests to me that we only thought the rhyme was about a big cat. ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-sued-for-saying-eenie-meenie-minie-moe/225698/31 "2004-01-25T16:49:24Z")
I’d never heard of the “nigger” version until this case hit the news. I probably first learned the tiger version in Ohio, though I spent most of my growing up time in central Texas. ---
**Author:** ![Tir\_Tinuviel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@Tir\_Tinuviel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tir_Tinuviel)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-sued-for-saying-eenie-meenie-minie-moe/225698/32 "2004-01-25T17:37:55Z")
> [@Roches](#): > > Also, tigers don’t have toes, [Whose Toes Are These?](http://www.billybear4kids.com/animal/whose-toes/toes15a.html) ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-sued-for-saying-eenie-meenie-minie-moe/225698/33 "2004-01-25T19:19:33Z")
Criticizing blacks is like poking at a school of fish–they scatter then immediately re-group. > [@](#): > > You think that black people are a monolithic entity? (etc.) Well, black people portray themselves as a monolithic entity, and that “society“ is a monolithic entity, as in, “We‘re living in a racist society“. The African-American community speaks with seemingly one voice in response to any number of issues. Let’s not smokescreen. There’s often a lot of talk about having a “national conversation about race” and this is understood on one level to be among whole groups. “Look at history” we are told when we want to know why blacks–apparently as a group–are reacting in a certain way to a particular issue, and this implies a shared background upon which they base an identity as a group. We often hear calls for the US to issue a formal apology for slavery, but apologize to whom if blacks aren’t a group? Of course there’s diversity of opinion within the African-American community–that’s what the movie _Barbershop_ was about for example–but then again, look at the protests that film elicited. I’m also talking about incidents such as college students getting in tons of trouble for dressing as Tiger Woods or the Jackson 5 for Halloween. It’s not understood in terms of any other masquerade, but rather it’s associated with those old blackface minstrel shows. They were clearly demeaning, but it shouldn’t be considered demeaning to do something that simply reminds one of something demeaning. At the same time as the infamous “niggardly” case, someone was accused of racism for referring to a problem as a “tar baby”, because that reminded someone of Uncle Remus, which in turn reminded them of slavery. One of my favorite examples came when a major league ballpark awarded its daily ticket upgrade to a group of fans. They show you on the diamond vision and play the theme from “The Jeffersons” cuz you’re “movin’ on up” to better seats, but this time it was a black family and they complained of racism. (Not sure which of these cases included lawsuits or demands for dismissal as opposed to simple complaints.) Or how about complaints over recent TV ads for Three Musketeers bars, which had a black guy as one of the musketeers. That bit of casting was done in the name of diversity, but some saw racism in the association of blacks and chocolate (I think I read that one in Time Magazine). We’re talking about a pattern here, a tendency within a specific body politic. I could have better-stated the final remark in the OP, to wit: In the course of having a national conversation about race, can the problem of frivolous lawsuits and complaints over questionable associations with racism and arrive at a more sophisticated understanding of what should or should not be considered racism? ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2004, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-sued-for-saying-eenie-meenie-minie-moe/225698/34 "2004-01-26T12:56:18Z")
> [@kmg365](#): > > (“Niggardly” means stingy or miserly and is derived from the Scandinavian word for miser, _Nygaard_ Wherever did you learn that ? _Nygaard_ is just a proper Danish name (in Swedish it would be spelt _Nygård_), meaning litterally “new yard”. AFAIUnderstand it’s the same word as the the name of the Russian town _Novgorod_. ---
**Author:** ![mark\_rischard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@mark\_rischard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mark_rischard)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2004, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-sued-for-saying-eenie-meenie-minie-moe/225698/35 "2004-01-26T13:45:58Z")
> [@Floater](#): > > Wherever did you learn that ? _Nygaard_ is just a proper Danish name (in Swedish it would be spelt _Nygård_), meaning litterally “new yard”. AFAIUnderstand it’s the same word as the the name of the Russian town _Novgorod_. According to my handy Webster’s, it’s derived from the Scandinavian “nigard”; a stingy person. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2004, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-sued-for-saying-eenie-meenie-minie-moe/225698/36 "2004-01-26T14:19:51Z")
> [@mark\_rischard](#): > > According to my handy Webster’s, it’s derived from the Scandinavian “nigard”; a stingy person. I must say that I have never heard any such word before. On the other hand, when I checked Merriam-Webster they confirmed its Old Norse origin and I can only say that it is definitely obsolete nowadays, at least in Swedish. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2004, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-sued-for-saying-eenie-meenie-minie-moe/225698/37 "2004-01-26T14:25:55Z")
Some deep thinking made me realise what it is in current Swedish (njugg). My defence is that it has corrupted through the years and isn’t very common anymore. ---
**Author:** ![spingears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2004, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-sued-for-saying-eenie-meenie-minie-moe/225698/38 "2004-01-26T17:31:33Z")
> [@Roches](#): > > To those who grew up with the ‘clean’ version, did you actually say ‘tiger’ or was it ‘tigger’? (And did you use the second line, ‘if he hollers, let him go’?) The version I heard was with ‘tigger’, so it was eventually obvious that it was formerly something else. Also, tigers don’t have toes, and they don’t ‘holler’. That being said, I’ve met a few people who were surprised to learn that there’s a racist version of the rhyme. I didn’t find which planet Roches is from but on the Planet Earth all cats (felines) have toes and claws, aka: toe nails. Some cats are even polydactyl, i.e. 6 or more toes, a few even have 7. It is a genetic thing. Earnest Hemingway had a lot of cats and motst of them were polydactyl. Cats, don’t 'holler,‘but cry, mew, and tirgers roar.’ so call it what you will. Read about them at: [http://centralpets.com/pages/critterpages/mammals/cats/CAT5776.shtml](http://centralpets.com/pages/critterpages/mammals/cats/CAT5776.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2017, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-sued-for-saying-eenie-meenie-minie-moe/225698/40 "2017-04-01T02:43:11Z")
> [@MagneticPortal](#): > > Few things are more offensive than taking offence where none is intended. I suspect that the people involved may have gotten over it by now. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2017, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-sued-for-saying-eenie-meenie-minie-moe/225698/41 "2017-04-01T02:48:23Z")
> [@MagneticPortal](#): > > They herd n\*ggers cause they got the word stuck in their nappy heads… Wow. Really? :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-sued-for-saying-eenie-meenie-minie-moe/225698.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airline-sued-for-saying-eenie-meenie-minie-moe/225698.md?page=3)