# Airliner shot down over Ukraine - what happens next? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 17, 2014, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airliner-shot-down-over-ukraine-what-happens-next/693397 "2014-07-17T20:14:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![filmstar-en](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/50afbb/32.png) [@filmstar-en](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmstar-en)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airliner-shot-down-over-ukraine-what-happens-next/693397/1 "2014-07-17T20:14:57Z")
Malaysia Airlines MH17 flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur was shot down in the same rebel occupied area where two Ukranian airforce planes were shot down in the few days. > **[Malaysia jet crashes in east Ukraine conflict zone](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28354856)** > > All 295 passengers and crew are believed dead as a Malaysian airliner crashes in the east Ukraine conflict zone, amid claims of a missile attack. The pro-Russian rebels are denying responsibility and accusing the Ukrainian military. Clearly an investigation in the middle of a war zone is likely to be difficult. It looks as if about 300 innocent people of various nationalities have been shot out of the sky on what was a regular scheduled international flight. What next? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airliner-shot-down-over-ukraine-what-happens-next/693397/2 "2014-07-17T20:59:38Z")
> [@filmstar-en](#): > > What next? Don’t fly with Malaysia Airlines? First Flight 370 and now this? That can’t be good for their reputation. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airliner-shot-down-over-ukraine-what-happens-next/693397/3 "2014-07-17T21:03:05Z")
Whoever didn’t shoot down the plane will take revenge on whoever they think did. And then those people will take revenge for the revenge. Repeat ad nauseum for the next dozen generations or so, until nobody remembers who is taking revenge for what, but they keep killing the other side. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airliner-shot-down-over-ukraine-what-happens-next/693397/4 "2014-07-17T21:04:06Z")
I dont know if there is enuf info for a debate yet. There is another thread on this topic [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=728714). ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airliner-shot-down-over-ukraine-what-happens-next/693397/5 "2014-07-17T23:19:57Z")
My prediction: Russia is going to use this as an excuse to take over the rest of Ukraine, putting Russian troops on the borders of Poland, Romania, and Hungary. Again. Fun times will be had by all as everybody goes completely apeshit. (I don’t think that’s the most likeliest course, but it is 100 years after the start of WW1 and I’ve been reading about it, and the causes, so I’m going “really bad case scenario” (only because a “worst case scenario” would involve nukes.)) Hope I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airliner-shot-down-over-ukraine-what-happens-next/693397/6 "2014-07-17T23:28:38Z")
\*\*What next? \*\* I’m goin’ to Disneyland! ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airliner-shot-down-over-ukraine-what-happens-next/693397/7 "2014-07-17T23:29:15Z")
It’s obvious that to some extent, Russia is behind this. Whether they pulled the trigger or just furnished the weapon to those who did. Vladimir Putin is quite an ignorant ass if he thinks we can’t see through this. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Cashless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Johnny\_Cashless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Cashless)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airliner-shot-down-over-ukraine-what-happens-next/693397/8 "2014-07-17T23:35:52Z")
Obviously an accident; probably stupid amatuers in charge of something way too smart for them. At least it wasn’t the USS Vincennes this time. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airliner-shot-down-over-ukraine-what-happens-next/693397/9 "2014-07-18T00:15:50Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Whoever didn’t shoot down the plane will take revenge on whoever they think did. And then those people will take revenge for the revenge. Repeat ad nauseum for the next dozen generations or so, until nobody remembers who is taking revenge for what, but they keep killing the other side. If you’re referring to taking vengeance on behalf of those killed on MH017, I don’t think that will be the case, as [wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17) is, at the moment, not listing any passengers of either Ukrainian or Russian nationality. However, if you’re referring to future bloodshed being retrospectively founded here, then I am unfortunately in agreement. ---
**Author:** ![kurtisokc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kurtisokc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kurtisokc)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airliner-shot-down-over-ukraine-what-happens-next/693397/10 "2014-07-18T00:18:43Z")
Regardless of who was ultimately responsible, Russia will try to pin the blame on Ukraine, and Ukraine will try to pin the blame on Russia, or the pro-Russian separatists (and, by extension, Russia.) I have a strong feeling that whatever happened it was an accident. I don’t think either side would see any benefit in shooting down a civilian airliner unless they felt sure that the other side would get the blame. ---
**Author:** ![Onyerbike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onyerbike/32/5402_2.png) [@Onyerbike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onyerbike)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airliner-shot-down-over-ukraine-what-happens-next/693397/11 "2014-07-18T00:53:12Z")
Foreign minister of Aus Julie Bishop has confirmed there were 27 Australians on board. No word yet on the amount of Dutch and Malays on board, but I expect thheir numbers to be significant as well. What a horrible event. Please, motherf **ckers, LOOK before you f** king SHOOT. Incompetent boobs. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airliner-shot-down-over-ukraine-what-happens-next/693397/12 "2014-07-18T01:24:32Z")
> [@Onyerbike](#): > > Foreign minister of Aus Julie Bishop has confirmed there were 27 Australians on board. No word yet on the amount of Dutch and Malays on board, but I expect thheir numbers to be significant as well. What a horrible event. > > Please, motherf **ckers, LOOK before you f** king SHOOT. Incompetent boobs. The same wiki cite I mentioned a few posts back said that over half the passengers were Dutch nationals. This will be a major event for the Netherlands. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airliner-shot-down-over-ukraine-what-happens-next/693397/13 "2014-07-18T01:41:21Z")
I’m afraid it’ll just be sanctions and more sanctions. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airliner-shot-down-over-ukraine-what-happens-next/693397/14 "2014-07-18T01:53:55Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I’m afraid it’ll just be sanctions and more sanctions. But it might be enough to get the Europeans to put some real teeth into their sanctions damn the oil. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airliner-shot-down-over-ukraine-what-happens-next/693397/15 "2014-07-18T02:39:25Z")
> [@Johnny\_Cashless](#): > > Obviously an accident; probably stupid amatuers in charge of something way too smart for them. It’s somewhat difficult to believe this was an accident. An airliner already at cruising altitude flies much too high to be shot down with the sort of manpack SAMs countries typically run to their pawns in insurrections, like the Stinger the USA supplied the muhajadeen, or its Soviet counterparts, the Grail and Gremlin. This is already being blamed on a Buk system, of which there are many variants - NATO refers to earlier variants as the “Gadfly,” later ones as the “Grizzly” - but they’re all pretty big, sophisticated systems mounted on armored vehicles. Shooting down an airliner that is at cruising altitude long before it gets to you is something you’d have to set out to do on purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Onyerbike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onyerbike/32/5402_2.png) [@Onyerbike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onyerbike)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airliner-shot-down-over-ukraine-what-happens-next/693397/16 "2014-07-18T02:40:23Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > The same wiki cite I mentioned a few posts back said that over half the passengers were Dutch nationals. This will be a major event for the Netherlands. Yes I missed that sorry, and how depressing for everyone involved. I hope the Netherlands and the other countries in collective that have lost people begin shaking those idiot mercenaries down for answers. They deserve to see everything that falls out of their miserable pockets. Russia should know they can’t afford to have their little dogs doing stupid shit like this when it’s their hardware and their money turning the wheels that get civilian aircraft shot down. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airliner-shot-down-over-ukraine-what-happens-next/693397/17 "2014-07-18T02:43:19Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > It’s somewhat difficult to believe this was an accident. An airliner already at cruising altitude flies much too high to be shot down with the sort of manpack SAMs countries typically run to their pawns in insurrections, like the Stinger the USA supplied the muhajadeen, or its Soviet counterparts, the Grail and Gremlin. > > This is already being blamed on a Buk system, of which there are many variants - NATO refers to earlier variants as the “Gadfly,” later ones as the “Grizzly” - but they’re all pretty big, sophisticated systems mounted on armored vehicles. Shooting down an airliner that is at cruising altitude long before it gets to you is something you’d have to set out to do on purpose. From what I’ve gathered, the theory is they shot the wrong plane. They thought they were shooting down a plane somehow tied to Ukraine…and even claimed as much in now deleted tweets when they realized the error. ---
**Author:** ![Robertfchew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/439d5e/32.png) [@Robertfchew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robertfchew)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airliner-shot-down-over-ukraine-what-happens-next/693397/18 "2014-07-18T04:49:41Z")
Fuzzy foreigners always doing something stupid ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airliner-shot-down-over-ukraine-what-happens-next/693397/19 "2014-07-18T07:10:56Z")
> [@Robertfchew](#): > > Fuzzy foreigners always doing something stupid Cynicism isn’t a substitute for intelligence. Just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Cashless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Johnny\_Cashless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Cashless)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airliner-shot-down-over-ukraine-what-happens-next/693397/20 "2014-07-18T07:20:00Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > It’s somewhat difficult to believe this was an accident. An airliner already at cruising altitude flies much too high to be shot down with the I don’t find it remotely difficult. Certainly “somewhat” more beliveable than any alternatives, like an unknown actor declaring war on Malaysian Airlines. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airliner-shot-down-over-ukraine-what-happens-next/693397.md?page=2)