# Airlines and BYOB **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 29, 2000, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-and-byob/31157 "2000-08-29T06:09:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![gillygirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3e96dc/32.png) [@gillygirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gillygirl)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2000, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-and-byob/31157/21 "2000-08-30T00:54:37Z")
LOL! Y’all are too funny! (thanks Sofa King for the firey wreck/dead body reminder :eek: ) I will for sure keep all those options in mind in a couple weeks! Thanks for the stories and also thanks Johnny for the facts! I think I shall stick with my (legal) xanax in maybe slightly illegal doses 😛 and Pluto-that sounds good if I had more time! I won’t get any further N. than St.Helens and every one of my precious days (5 whole days)will be spent hiking and canoeing and fishing–yay!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2000, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-and-byob/31157/22 "2000-08-30T00:59:49Z")
**Sofa King** said: > [@](#): > > I think the lower pressurization of the cabin at altitude somehow contributes to increased intoxication. You are probably right. The Aeronautical Information Manual talks about the effects of alcohol on [hypoxia](http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/aim/Chap8/aim0801.html#8-1-2). Usually hypoxia isn’t noticable until 12,000 feet, and most airlines are pressurized to 8,000 feet. Alcohol can cause the effects of hypoxia to start at lower pressure altitudes, so it is likely you are experiencing hypoxia along with your alcohol buzz. > [@](#): > > As far as being a danger to self and others on a passenger plane, I think that might be a little unrealistic. If a plane gets itself into a real emergency, you are most likely going to die long before you can endanger anyone. 80% of airline crashes are survivable. Your personal survivablity in these crashes is dependent on your quick thinking and action after the intial impact. Most of the death associated with survivable crashes are fire related. You got to get out of that plane as fast as possible. > [@](#): > > …a passed-out drunk is quite possibly more likely to survive, because a flaccid drunk can probably withstand a greater impact than a panicked, tense, sober person. I disagree. In an unsurvivable crash a drunk is a lawn dart along with everyone else. In a survivable crash the intial impact is not the major cause of loss of life, fire is. I doubt there is any benefit gained from being drunk and relaxed. Airplane crashes are not like car crashes in this way. I never seen proof that drunks have a higher survival rate in cars, but I’ve heard it enough. I think it is reasonable to assume that the data does not transfer well to airline crashes. ---
**Author:** ![CnoteChris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/278dde/32.png) [@CnoteChris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CnoteChris)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2000, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-and-byob/31157/23 "2000-08-30T02:38:27Z")
Dr. Lao, where exactly are you getting that 80% figure? I find that hard to believe. Are you talking about all aircraft? Only commercial? Worldwide or US? I’ve spent the last half-hour trying to verify that figure and have come up blank. It’s not without it’s losses, however, I learned what caused the Concorde crash (Metal on runway blew a tire that then entered the engine and blew it up) and have read and heard some gory transcripts and black box audio. So not a total loss, but where are you getting this figure? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2000, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-and-byob/31157/24 "2000-08-30T13:06:13Z")
> [@](#): > > Dr. Lao, where exactly are you getting that 80% figure? I find that hard to believe. Are you talking about all aircraft? Only commercial? Worldwide or US? Probably from me. I posted some numbers from the AOPA site here: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=26248](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=26248) > [@](#): > > - **Includes air carrier (scheduled and unscheduled), commuter, and air taxi accident data.** > \*\* Based on NTSB estimated data (25.473 million hours flown by general aviation operators and 19.062 million hours flown by the Part 121 scheduled/ nonscheduled and Part 135 scheduled/ nonscheduled airlines). > \*\*\* Based on FAA (39.400 million general aviation departures) and NTSB estimated data (11.695 million departures by Part 121 scheduled/ nonscheduled and Part 135 scheduled air carriers). > > So going by these 1996 numbers there were 2,006 total crashes of which 384 were fatal. About 19% of the crashes were fatal. I got the information from this site: [http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/stats/fctcrd11.html](http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/stats/fctcrd11.html) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2000, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-and-byob/31157/25 "2000-08-30T13:08:24Z")
Oh, that’s **U.S.** Civil Aviation Accident Data. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2000, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-and-byob/31157/26 "2000-08-30T14:48:15Z")
On the altitude thing: Yes, you certainly DO get drunk faster at higher altitudes. I live at about 5200 feet above sea level. When friends come to visit, I _always_ have to warn them about getting schnockered. This goes away as you become aclimated. I never have felt extra-drunk on a plane. On the other hand, it works the opposite as well. When I go to sea level, I can drink like a fish and literally never get drunk. It’s sorta fun to drink my brothers under the table. Unfortunately, that wears off, too, after about a week and a half. ---
**Author:** ![CnoteChris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/278dde/32.png) [@CnoteChris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CnoteChris)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2000, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-and-byob/31157/27 "2000-08-30T16:41:06Z")
Johnny LA- I was looking at [this](http://www.ntsb.gov/Aviation/Paxfatal.htm) site. These are only commercial aircraft accidents. After some crafty adding of all the accidents listed there, 2524 passengers survived and 2311 died. So about 50/50 in my book when dealing with commercial aircraft and survivability. I think you and I were looking at different stats. ---
**Author:** ![CnoteChris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/278dde/32.png) [@CnoteChris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CnoteChris)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2000, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-and-byob/31157/28 "2000-08-30T16:52:31Z")
By the way, if GillyGirl hasn’t started boozing over her flight by now, I think she’ll be starting soon. All this talk about death and plane travel is _so_ fun. Gilly- A good mix that has practically no odor is a mix of Mountain Dew and Vodka. The caffeine should keep you somewhat alert and you won’t be smelling like a distillery when you land. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2000, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-and-byob/31157/29 "2000-08-30T23:22:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Johnny LA- > > I was looking at this site. These are only commercial aircraft accidents. After some crafty adding of all the accidents listed there, 2524 passengers survived and 2311 died. So about 50/50 in my book when dealing with commercial aircraft and survivability. > > I think you and I were looking at different stats. I believe the AOPA stats are for all of U.S. general aviation. Also, the AOPA stats show how many accidents were fatal. Your stats show how many fatalities there were in accidents. Quite different ways of looking at things. ---
**Author:** ![techchick68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@techchick68](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/techchick68)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2000, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-and-byob/31157/30 "2000-08-30T23:39:34Z")
\< off topic here, kinda sorta \> I plan on arriving to Vegas drunk this weekend, drink a couple in DIA and then have a beer or two on the flight. It’s only a 2 hour flight. I too hate flying on airplanes but always loosen up when the flight attendant serves up the beer. Oh and I don’t plan on being much but buzzed the entire trip! \< hehe \> ---
**Author:** ![gillygirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3e96dc/32.png) [@gillygirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gillygirl)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-and-byob/31157/31 "2000-08-31T00:14:23Z")
[list=1] anyway you look at it,being in a plane crash would not be a good thing :eek: booze booze 🙂 gooooo techchick! LOL 😛 [/list=1] ---
**Author:** ![gillygirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3e96dc/32.png) [@gillygirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gillygirl)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-and-byob/31157/32 "2000-08-31T00:19:17Z")
Question: With all the statistics floating around, can someone tell me what the odds are of my plane crashing, and then tell me how likely I am to survive? (is the last part the part the 80% survival rate comes in?) ---
**Author:** ![CnoteChris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/278dde/32.png) [@CnoteChris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CnoteChris)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-and-byob/31157/33 "2000-08-31T00:19:40Z")
Johnny LA- I’ll concede that my statistics were solely based on airline crashes that resulted in death. In that case, you have about a 50/50 chance of surviving. Not what you said Dr. Lao was quoting. But given the site you link to, the 80% figure is wrong as well. All told, 1/3, or 33% (Tot. Acc. =2049 Tot. Fatal.= 690) of aircraft accidents result in death. Taking major airlines statistics only, and that number jumps to 43% (Acc, Air Carrier= 141 Fatal. =62) So still, slightly under half. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-and-byob/31157/34 "2000-08-31T00:20:52Z")
**CnoteChris** I said that 80% of airline crashes were survivable. I’ve heard this quoted a number of times, but I don’t have a source. Your data shows that there were 39 fatal crashes for part 121 air carriers (the majority of airline flights in this country are part 121) since 1982. After purusing the data, I see that 14 were not survivable (every person died). Not exatly 80%, closer to 64% were survivable. But this takes into account only fatal accidents in which all unsurvivable crashes are included but some survivable crashes aren’t. The AOPA stats given by **Johnny L.A.** show that there were 141 air carrier crashes but only 19 of these had any fatalities. This shows that close to 87% of crashes don’t have any fatalities at all. This includes part 135 (air taxi and some schedualed service) crashes which occur at a higher rate and with few fatalities per crash compared to part 121. I’ll try to find some statistics showing the total number of part 121 crashes and the number that had no survivors. I don’t think it is fair to include the general aviation statistics here. These include private pilot flights and some charter flights. A very small percentage of passengers will ever fly general aviation. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-and-byob/31157/35 "2000-08-31T00:35:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CnoteChris \* > Taking major airlines statistics only, and that number jumps to 43% (Acc, Air Carrier= 141 Fatal. =62) So still, slightly under half. > > Right? I don’t think so. There were 62 fatalities (actual passenger deaths) in a 141 crashes (flights), but only 19 crashes (again, flights) had any fatalities. So you are comparing apples to oranges a bit here. I think you misread the statistics. Obviously, in all the crashes of air carriers there were more than one person aboard each flight. BTW, the AOPA stats you quote here are not “major airlines.” They include all for hire schedualed flights and air taxi services. So this is all the major airlines, national airlines, commuter services, and corporate flight departments among others. I would have responded in my last post but I started before you posted **CnoteChris**. Still working on the other statistics. ---
**Author:** ![CnoteChris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/278dde/32.png) [@CnoteChris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CnoteChris)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-and-byob/31157/36 "2000-08-31T00:47:15Z")
Dr Lao. O.K. Lets see here, According to Johnny LA’s stats, of the 141 air carrier accidents, 19 were fatal, 13%. So, only 13% of air carrier accidents result in death. But, according to my stats, of the accidents resulting in death, your chance of surviving is only 50%. Still, not a 80% survival rate. **GillyGirl** According to Johnny’s link, for every 100,000 passengers flown, you have 0.16 chance of dying. I think. [This](http://www.flyingsafe.com/airline_safety_5_year_table.htm) site explains it in more detail. ---
**Author:** ![CnoteChris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/278dde/32.png) [@CnoteChris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CnoteChris)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-and-byob/31157/37 "2000-08-31T00:51:33Z")
Friggin’ simulposting. I think I’ve butchered the stats. Their all beginning to look confusing. I think all of us are comparing apple’s to oranges and are not on the same page here. What I was trying to get at is where the statistic that say that 80% of all airline crashes are survivable. Maybe crashes is the key word, not accidents. If the plane crashes to the ground, what is the likelyhood of survival? ---
**Author:** ![gillygirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3e96dc/32.png) [@gillygirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gillygirl)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-and-byob/31157/38 "2000-08-31T01:07:22Z")
I checked out your link CnoteChris and I guess things don’t look QUITE as bad as I thought LOL ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-and-byob/31157/39 "2000-08-31T01:17:09Z")
> [@](#): > > Still, not a 80% survival rate. I know, what I originally meant was that in 80% of crashes not everyone dies, so they are survivable crashes. From what I got [here](http://www.ntsb.gov/aviation/Stats.htm) I think it is closer to 95%. That isn’t to say that you have a 95% chance of surviving if you get in a crash, just that at least some of the people aboard the plane have a chance of surviving in 95% of crashes. I mixed some statistics from different places, so don’t put too much trust in this number. > [@](#): > > If the plane crashes to the ground, what is the likelyhood of survival? This is, of course, the real question, the problem is I can’t find any statistics for how many people survived a non-fatal crash. For non-fatal crashes they usually don’t do a head count. Or at least they don’t do one that makes it into the statistics. We have the number of fatalities and crashes, to figure out your chances for survival we need the number of survivors. ---
**Author:** ![CnoteChris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/278dde/32.png) [@CnoteChris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CnoteChris)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-and-byob/31157/40 "2000-08-31T01:36:54Z")
Dr Lao said: > [@](#): > > This is, of course, the real question, the problem is I can’t find any statistics for how many people survived a non-fatal crash. For non-fatal crashes they usually don’t do a head count. Or at least they don’t do one that makes it into the statistics. We have the number of fatalities and crashes, to figure out your chances for survival we need the number of survivors. I can’t find it either. You’d think they’d have stats on that. Anyrate, having fun yet **GillyGirl**? Sorry to steal your thread like that. ::Trying desperately to make you feel better:: A- You have nothing to worry about flying. Your chances of an accident or crash is slim. Hundreds of thousands of people do it every day. Be thankfull your flying in the U.S. and not some other country where they may not give a rip. B- The consensus seems to think you can bring booze along if you want. Pre-mixing a couple of cocktails in non-descript containers is your best bet. But be carefull, it’s not fun to wake up in an airplane with the maintenance crew, flight crew, and pilots, hovering around you trying to wake you from a drunken stuppor. Happy flying and have fun on your trip! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-and-byob/31157.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-and-byob/31157.md?page=3)