# Airlines sued for not accepting an obese passenger who later died **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 27, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-sued-for-not-accepting-an-obese-passenger-who-later-died/642274 "2012-11-27T16:29:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-sued-for-not-accepting-an-obese-passenger-who-later-died/642274/61 "2012-11-28T16:55:53Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > So if I get a mind-boggling huge amount of money from a company that I don’t deserve from a company that isn’t at fault for a problem that money can’t fix its okay if the company won’t miss that money? > > IMO that is still just theft, its just stealing a tiny amount from a bunch of people from people that didnt do anything wrong. > > I don’t want a penny of my airfair money going to the dumb widower and his grubby lawyer. OK - first, I agree about the dumb widower. On McDonald’s - they were serving dangerous, scaldingly hot coffee, and had paid off on claims before - so they knew they had a problem. Once you accept that (and you may not) - then someone is going to get the big payoff that shocks the corporation into changing it’s process. And getting your labia fused (from farther down the thread) seems like a good case for getting the payoff. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-sued-for-not-accepting-an-obese-passenger-who-later-died/642274/62 "2012-11-28T20:24:41Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I was thinking the same thing. That woman “scalded her crotch” is not the right phrase. I believe her labia was almost melted and fused together. I read the details somewhere else - even more detailed than that pdf link - and it was awful. Even the link you have says she was permanently disfigured. There was an HBO Documentary called Hot Coffee, They showed photos of her actual injuries. I almost vomited. ---
**Author:** ![BottledBlondJeanie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@BottledBlondJeanie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BottledBlondJeanie)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-sued-for-not-accepting-an-obese-passenger-who-later-died/642274/63 "2012-11-28T20:29:33Z")
Sorry, this woman’s husband is entitled to nothing, and she should not have ever traveled overseas if she felt she was entitled to transport back to the US for treatment. As for the McDonalds case, TokyoBayer and company have it mostly right. I lecture on it occasionally, and there were previous settlements and internal memorandum acknowledging many of the machines made coffee at a higher temperature allowed by health codes?, but a cost-analysis was performed determining it would cost more to replace the coffee machines than it would to payoff future injuries. Not sure of the labia issue, but the plaintiff required several skin grafts (6?) and endured horrible required debridement of her thighs and genital area. Neither she nor her lawyers made much at all. And yeah, the punitive damages are not supposed to be recompense to the plaintiff so to speak. They are meant to punish the wrongdoer. In this instance, as mentioned, it was IIRC the whopping sum of a single day’s profits from selling coffee. I’m curious as to the Warsaw Convention’s impact on the current case though. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-sued-for-not-accepting-an-obese-passenger-who-later-died/642274/64 "2012-11-29T01:39:31Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > They could have changed her seats with the pair of seats that fronts the entry door to the plane. The pair of people sitting there could have been moved to wherever her seats were. As others have said, those seats usually have some kind of panel in front of them and don’t have significantly more legroom than any other seat. The seats with extra legroom are almost always exit row seats, and you must be able-bodied to sit there. The airline was faced with two issues - finding a place to put her and finding a way to do it without endangering everyone else. Apparently they tried, but couldn’t do it. I have actually never seen a really morbidly obese person on an airplane, so maybe I am misunderstanding how the airline deals with them. But, looking at her picture I just can’t imagine where you would possibly put a person of that size and shape on the average airplane. If she was retaining water due to her kidney condition, she may well have added significant weight and size in the month or so she was in Europe, making it impossible to transport her even though it was possible to get her from NYC to Hungary. > [@](#): > > People get very attached to their doctors, she was returning to the US to go to her specialist [renal? internalist?] and believe me, when you have a great relationship with your personal doctor, having to go to a total stranger, have to go through the entire dog and pony show of the exact issue, current treatment status, and in her case being so hugely obese her embarrassment at the possible abuse from the medical staff can make the idea of going to a strange medical facility horrifying. Nobody particularly likes to go to a strange doctor, but sometimes it is a necessity when you are far from home. If you have a chronic, serious medical condition, it’s incredibly foolish to leave home without any kind of contingency plan for medical care. Many, many issues could have come up for her that would not have allowed her the luxury of waiting through a 10+ hour journey to get back to her regular specialist, even if she was able to get onto a plane right away. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-sued-for-not-accepting-an-obese-passenger-who-later-died/642274/65 "2012-11-29T03:29:30Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > So if I get a mind-boggling huge amount of money from a company that I don’t deserve from a company that isn’t at fault for a problem that money can’t fix its okay if the company won’t miss that money? > > IMO that is still just theft, its just stealing a tiny amount from a bunch of people from people that didnt do anything wrong. > > I don’t want a penny of my airfair money going to the dumb widower and his grubby lawyer. Well, in the McDonald’s coffee case, even though the jury’s decision was the one day’s worth of coffee sales, the actual award was about 1/10 of that, since the judge reduced it to a reasonable amount. Again, just because the jury awards something in civil court doesn’t mean that the judge can’t adjust it as he sees fit. The infuriating thing about this dumb-ass woman who died is that it’s likely that the airlines will settle out of court for some sum less than the plead for amount, but still a nice chunk of change, all in the interest of not actually going to the expense and trouble of a full-blown court case. Strikes me as a sort of legal blackmail, but the companies do have the option to take it all the way to court and likely win their cases, but the total cost might be more than just paying 1/4 of that to the husband to STFU. ---
**Author:** ![6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/6/e19adc/32.png) [@6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-sued-for-not-accepting-an-obese-passenger-who-later-died/642274/66 "2012-11-29T07:44:19Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > if there was blimp service available she might have been saved. KLM and Delta offered blimp service. For more than an hour, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-sued-for-not-accepting-an-obese-passenger-who-later-died/642274/67 "2012-11-29T08:12:52Z")
> [@polar\_bear](#): > > I read (in Ducth) that she ‘retained water’, which made her more obese than when she flew there. The article also said she barely fitted into the airplane door, but could not fit in the narrower ‘hallways’ going to the left and right. They literally weren’t able to get her to a seat. FWIW, by the time my late H went on dialysis, he had put on an additional 40 lbs of water weight over a period of about a month. Sequel: he was on dialysis for nine months then had a kidney transplant. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-sued-for-not-accepting-an-obese-passenger-who-later-died/642274/68 "2012-11-29T09:43:48Z")
Side issue: How would a woman that size and _with only one! leg_ use a bathroom on an airplane? For a transatlantic flight, I doubt she could count on just using the bathroom before boarding then being content for the entire journey. ---
**Author:** ![KKKK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/48db29/32.png) [@KKKK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KKKK)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-sued-for-not-accepting-an-obese-passenger-who-later-died/642274/69 "2012-11-29T13:43:03Z")
> [@JoseB](#): > > The whole story makes me cringe a bit. > > [Delta and KLM sued over 'too fat to fly' Vilma Soltesz - BBC News](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20510267) > > Long story short: A US-woman who was in Hungary (apparently her husband was Hungarian and she had gone there to their holiday home), weighing close to 200 kg, sick with diabetes and kidney trouble, was supposed to go back to New York to continue her treatment. > > KLM and Delta Airlines were apparently either unable or unwilling to get her in their planes. > > The woman refused to put herself in the hands of Hungarian doctors because apparently she didn’t trust them. In the end, she died. > > Delta and KLM are being sued by the husband. > > On the one hand, I cannot understand how come the airlines were able to take her from the US to Europe, but then she didn’t fit in the airplane when trying to go back (I cannot imagine her gaining so much weight in so short time that she became unable to fit, but then I am not a doctor and I don’t know if, with her diseases, that is possible – perhaps extreme water retention?). > > On the other hand, I am flabbergasted that, in such a dire situation, she didn’t allow Hungarian doctors to treat her. It is not the US, but it doesn’t mean that they are incompetent. Of course, here we are dealing with psychological issues I guess, and I imagine that the prospect of having to be dealt with by the health system of a place where you (likely) don’t speak the language well may be a daunting thing. > > All in all, a sad, sad story. I think that this death was perfectly preventable. I don’t get this. The lady trusts Hungarians enough to marry one of them, but not enough to be medically treated by them? And did the Hungarian husband share this mistrust of his own country’s doctors? Let’s say he falls sick next, can he sue the US Govt. if it doesn’t give him a visa to travel from Hungary to the US for treatment? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-sued-for-not-accepting-an-obese-passenger-who-later-died/642274/70 "2012-11-29T13:46:30Z")
According to some of the articles, the lady was originally from Hungary herself. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-sued-for-not-accepting-an-obese-passenger-who-later-died/642274/71 "2012-11-29T13:57:00Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > According to some of the articles, the lady was originally from Hungary herself. From the photo, I can’t believe that woman has ever gone Hungary a day in her life. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-sued-for-not-accepting-an-obese-passenger-who-later-died/642274/72 "2012-11-29T14:28:18Z")
Look, I mistrust Indian doctors (in India, that is), and the times I’ve gone to India in my life I’ve really hoped I never get sick. But I’d STILL go to one if I was there and I really sick! ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-sued-for-not-accepting-an-obese-passenger-who-later-died/642274/73 "2012-11-29T14:55:23Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I was thinking the same thing. That woman “scalded her crotch” is not the right phrase. I believe her labia was almost melted and fused together. Labias _melt_? And after having done so, fuse together (presumably after the liquid flesh cools enough to become solid again)? Who knew? ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-sued-for-not-accepting-an-obese-passenger-who-later-died/642274/74 "2012-11-29T16:11:16Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > Could she have been put on board a military transport, or FedEx plane? Thank you. Now I’ve got an image of the pilot of a C-130 Hercules giving her a look and thinking, “I dunno…” ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-sued-for-not-accepting-an-obese-passenger-who-later-died/642274/75 "2012-11-29T16:18:11Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > Labias _melt_? And after having done so, fuse together (presumably after the liquid flesh cools enough to become solid again)? > > Who knew? I don’t remember the exact extent of the injuries but you can bet your ass that particular injury stuck in my head and has never left. I may hunt around at home and look for a cite. I also may not. I don’t think I want to read about them again. But I know horrible, horrible things happened to her vulva and her genitalia in general. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-sued-for-not-accepting-an-obese-passenger-who-later-died/642274/76 "2012-11-29T16:21:05Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Thank you. > > Now I’ve got an image of the pilot of a C-130 Hercules giving her a look and thinking, “I dunno…” I can see the aircraft sitting a little tail low too. ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-sued-for-not-accepting-an-obese-passenger-who-later-died/642274/77 "2012-11-29T16:23:38Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by **BwanaBob** > > Could she have been put on board a military transport, or FedEx plane? > > Thank you. > > Now I’ve got an image of the pilot of a C-130 Hercules giving her a look and thinking, “I dunno…” Actually, FedEx is a preferred shipper for horses, especially for over seas flights. They routinely handle horses with six and seven figure values. (Many fly from coast to coast in the US instead of enduring 7 days in a trailer) If only the regulations could have been waived to allow a human to ship using the same facilities (horses travel in a private, enclosed stall and I believe they are allowed up to two ‘handlers’ who have access during the flight to monitor their well being). ETA: US Equestrian Team (horses) were FedEx’d to the Olympics: [http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/47865662/ns/today-today\_in\_london/t/us-olympic-horses-fedexd-london-red-eye/](http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/47865662/ns/today-today_in_london/t/us-olympic-horses-fedexd-london-red-eye/) ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-sued-for-not-accepting-an-obese-passenger-who-later-died/642274/78 "2012-11-29T16:26:48Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > Labias _melt_? Not from friction, and believe me I’ve tried. ---
**Author:** ![ramblingrosie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ec8ea/32.png) [@ramblingrosie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ramblingrosie)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2012, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-sued-for-not-accepting-an-obese-passenger-who-later-died/642274/79 "2012-12-01T00:25:53Z")
If Vilma, the obese passenger, was on home dialysis, she would be covered by Medicare for kidney treatments and medical supplies in the US, but NOT abroad. Chances are good she brought enough supplies with her to last a month or two, but her condition worsened during her vacation. The family decided to not pay out of pocket for local Hungarian medical treatment, even though it costs a fraction of what it would in the US. If you see what she looked like before she died, head all expanded like a huge water balloon, it’s obvious her kidneys weren’t working. She needed immediate local medical intervention. It was unconscionable that her husband did not get her to a doctor. Hungarian hospitals and doctors are fine. Not much different than in the US. Hungary is popular for medical tourism, esp. from Western European countries. Many US and British trained doctors in the big cities. The couple kept a second home in Hungary where they were planning to retire. What were they planning to do about medical treatment then? Fly back and forth so they could exploit the social benefits of both the US and Hungary? I work as a flight attendant. No airline denies boarding to a passenger with a handicap, unless they have no choice. Any dealings with disabled passengers are strictly scrutinized, especially when a complaint has been filed with the DOT. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2012, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-sued-for-not-accepting-an-obese-passenger-who-later-died/642274/80 "2012-12-01T01:04:58Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > Side issue: > > How would a woman that size and _with only one! leg_ use a bathroom on an airplane? For a transatlantic flight, I doubt she could count on just using the bathroom before boarding then being content for the entire journey. If her kidney disease was progressed far enough, she may not have urinated much. Or at all. Some people with End Stage Renal Disease and/or Acute Kidney Failure don’t urinate at all, and just keep retaining water until they go to dialysis. And many people, kidney disease or not, don’t move their bowels every day. Or maybe she had an indwelling catheter or an urostomy, or wore adult diapers. So she may not have needed a bathroom. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-sued-for-not-accepting-an-obese-passenger-who-later-died/642274.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airlines-sued-for-not-accepting-an-obese-passenger-who-later-died/642274.md?page=5)