# Airport security - when do we say "enough"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 28, 2017, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airport-security-when-do-we-say-enough/787608 "2017-05-28T18:20:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2017, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airport-security-when-do-we-say-enough/787608/101 "2017-05-30T14:35:35Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > Al Qaeda Boo! > > Now you fly naked. I work for an airline, and considering some of the flight attendants I have seen this might be an idea worth considering. But to a large degree, I agree with those who say that the terrorists have won. The idea is to force an over-reaction. Much of the TSA and other security measures are an over-reaction, and thus al-Qaeda got what it wanted - lots of attention for them (not all of it positive, I grant you, but attention is attention), and making the US and the West look scared, which they do, and are. Unfortunately > [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > When we’re able, as a society, to have an honest conversation about how much risk we are willing to take in order to maintain a certain degree of freedom. So, short answer is “never”. this is right on the money. Is it worth a significant amount of inconvenience to save a few lives? At some point the answer is No, but nobody wants to admit it. We could save a lot of lives if we implemented a national speed limit of 25mph. But we aren’t going to do it because it isn’t worth it. People are more afraid of events that kill a lot of people at once than they are of events that kill a few people at a time, even if the few-people events kill more people overall. It’s really hard to do a rational cost-benefit analysis when you are scared, and people are scared of terrorism. The other thing to fight against is the idea that there is some solution that will catch everything, and also not produce any false positives. There are no such solutions. Never will be. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2017, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airport-security-when-do-we-say-enough/787608/102 "2017-05-30T14:43:53Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > This is gonna be a huge business opportunity for rent-a-laptop/rent-a-tablet outfits to enable people to work on the road. Has the Homeland Security Director already arranged his future executive position with one of those outfits, or is he still taking bids? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2017, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airport-security-when-do-we-say-enough/787608/103 "2017-05-30T15:02:33Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > People are more afraid of events that kill a lot of people at once than they are of events that kill a few people at a time, even if the few-people events kill more people overall. It’s really hard to do a rational cost-benefit analysis when you are scared, and people are scared of terrorism. The other thing to fight against is the idea that there is some solution that will catch everything, and also not produce any false positives. The other big bias at work here is that people are more afraid of perceived outsiders killing them than in-group members doing so (not to mention furniture), regardless of the actual threats. Terrorism combines mass casualties, memorable and unique death mechanisms, and out-group fear in one package. One small ray of hope there is that if the “group” assigned to terrorists becomes less exotic, then people overreact less. In a globalizing world, maybe exotic boogie men will become rarer. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2017, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airport-security-when-do-we-say-enough/787608/104 "2017-05-30T18:41:41Z")
And yet another act in the [TSA Security Theater](https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20170528/12262037470/dhs-tsa-to-make-boarding-plane-even-more-pain-ass): > [@](#): > > The TSA is testing tighter screening of carry-ons, and the idea that people who bring their carry-ons are going to have to unpack them and put food in one bin, and electronics in the another bin, and paper in another bin. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2017, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airport-security-when-do-we-say-enough/787608/105 "2017-05-30T19:14:25Z")
Isn’t it hilarious how after dozens of mass shootings, including one with a plethora of dead schoolchildren, we can’t have a conversation on gun regulation without being accused of wiping our collective ass with the U.S. Constitution… …but fly a couple of planes into buildings? For a decade and a half afterward I can’t even carry a full bottle of shampoo on a plane. Call this “proportionate”? I don’t. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2017, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airport-security-when-do-we-say-enough/787608/106 "2017-05-30T19:19:27Z")
Another point on security theater, by the way: You know those shopping malls you’ll find nowadays inside of the security checkpoints? I can think of at least a couple of ways to make bombs using things you can buy in those shops. And a lot more, if I can posit collusion from someone working in those shops. ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2017, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airport-security-when-do-we-say-enough/787608/107 "2017-05-30T19:54:09Z")
The moment they announced Homeland Security and draconian TSA procedures I knew Osama had won. Osama been dead years now and he still rules our lives. Wake up sheeple! ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2017, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airport-security-when-do-we-say-enough/787608/108 "2017-05-30T20:30:04Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Pfft. Suffice it to say I have no problem at all with airport/airline security as it has manifested itself to date. And the people wringing their hands over it I can’t take seriously. I gotta say, it’s pretty hilarious that the guy worried about the infinitesimal chance of being blown up on a plane accusing others of “wringing their hands” over the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2017, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airport-security-when-do-we-say-enough/787608/109 "2017-05-30T22:35:37Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > I disagree. I, (like, I’m sure, most people) recognize the need for security at airports, it’s just that the current methods employed by the TSA seem to be mostly about giving the illusion of security. It’s not that there needs to be more or less security, but more rethinking about what can be done and what is most effective. Using the laptop ban as an example: as pointed out, making people stow their laptops doesn’t remove the potential bomb from the plane, so what is really the point of it? It’s a complex issue indeed. For instance: reinforcing the cockpit doors and adding locks that can be “locked out” by the pilot may have led to the downing of [Germanwings 9525](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525). > I think the biggest problems stem from the inherent inertia of govt bureaucracy. once TSA has implemented a security measure to respond to a specific threat, that’s it - done and done. There doesn’t seem to be alot of revisiting; examining the effectiveness and continued necessity of the measure. I’m probably oversimplifying and underrating the TSA’s review policy, but I dont think I’m overstating its lack of effectiveness. I agree about the “illusion of security.” I have long said that the point of the whole TSA screening was not to make people safer, but merely to make people feel safer. I remember flying in November, 2001. Granted, they were still in the process of setting security rules. This was long enough ago that passengers in Coach actually got meals on longer flights. Our dinner trays came with plastic knives but metal forks. I told my husband that if I were up against some lunatic who wanted to kill me with tableware, I’d rather he had one of the airline’s metal butter knives and a plastic fork. I believe that part of the reason why screening rules are never revisited is that they are afraid that admitting that a rule was put into place that didn’t actually serve to make people safer would make passengers question a lot of the rules. So if they said, “We’ve done some analysis and we’ve decided that letting people carry on a 16-oz bottle of shampoo is no less safe than a 3-oz bottle” some people would reply, “Well, that makes sense. Now how about this taking-off-my-shoes business – can you show me some data that indicate this makes me safer? And how about how I have to pull my CPAP out of its case – does that make me safer?” Speaking of which, if they don’t allow me to take my Surface in my carry-on baggage, will they also force me to check my CPAP? OK, if they lose my CPAP I won’t die if I have to sleep a couple of nights without it, but I’m sure there are other medical devices out there that people absolutely must have or face dire consequences. If they can’t tell if there are explosives in my computer, how can they tell if there are explosives in my CPAP? ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2017, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airport-security-when-do-we-say-enough/787608/110 "2017-05-31T01:28:01Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > Isn’t it hilarious how after dozens of mass shootings, including one with a plethora of dead schoolchildren, we can’t have a conversation on gun regulation without being accused of wiping our collective ass with the U.S. Constitution… > > …but fly a couple of planes into buildings? For a decade and a half afterward I can’t even carry a full bottle of shampoo on a plane. > > Call this “proportionate”? I don’t. :rolleyes: Pretty much my thoughts on the matter. What’s worse is the US expects the entire rest of the world to implement the same rules, so the entire air-travelling population of the world gets inconvenienced regardless of whether it’s actually an appropriate response to the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2017, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airport-security-when-do-we-say-enough/787608/111 "2017-05-31T10:08:15Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > What’s worse is the US expects the entire rest of the world to implement the same rules, so the entire air-travelling population of the world gets inconvenienced regardless of whether it’s actually an appropriate response to the issue. Yes. If the USA wanted to be stupid and crazy all by itself, the rest of the world could just say “okay” and shake our heads. but no, the USA works hard to impose the latest stupid, useless rules on rest of world by various bans, and requirements and by its market power size, succeeds. ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airport-security-when-do-we-say-enough/787608/112 "2017-06-01T20:39:34Z")
Don’t forget that our friends at the Tub Stacking Agency also have a financial interest in making security screening as annoying as possible. Tired of taking of your belt and shoes? TSA-Pre makes your life so much easier! I saw the same thing from Customs and Border Protection two weeks ago returning from France through Philadelphia. _Every single person_ had to wait in line to talk to a CBP agent, no matter whether they had cleared through the automated kiosks or not. An extra 45 minutes of standing in line, with all of your bags, in a sweltering hot room makes one hell of an advertisement for Global Entry. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airport-security-when-do-we-say-enough/787608.md?page=5)