# airstrikes on Gaza **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 11, 2014, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856 "2014-07-11T14:55:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/501 "2014-07-20T02:36:58Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > I don’t know about that: Gandhi’s belief that the Jews should throw themselves on the mercy of the Nazis and the Arabs seems right up Hamas’s alley. I don’t think Gandhi believed his method would work against Nazis. He spent time living in England and understood why it would work against the Brits. I don’t know if he thought it could work in South Africa [Apartheid - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Africa_under_apartheid#Internal_resistance) [Mahatma Gandhi - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohandas_Karamchand_Gandhi_in_South_Africa#Civil_rights_movement_in_South_Africa_.281893.E2.80.931914.29) He didn’t stick around trying to achieve freedom and equality for the blacks there and when the blacks subsequently tried using Gandhi’s tactics, it didn’t go so well for them. I wonder if he thought it would work against the Israelis. [Mahatma Gandhi - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohandas_Karamchand_Gandhi_in_South_Africa#Jews) ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/502 "2014-07-20T02:42:16Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You know how Palestinians have this “back to 1967 borders” formula, right? Well, from 1948 to 1967 all that land that they wanted was under Arab control. Were there attacks on Israel from that territory? Yes. Was there any effort to create an independent state of “Palestine” on that land? No. That shows how much the so-called “Palestinians” wanted their own state vs. how much they wanted to destroy Israel. That was then, this is now. > [@](#): > > Today, all that the Palestinians have to do to get their own bona fide, independent, sovereign state, is to come out and say "We want to prove to you we can be good neighbors. For the next 10 years, we will do everything possible to prevent any terrorist attacks on Israelis. We will not attack Jews - whether settlers or not. We will not shoot, stab, or blow up Jews. We will hunt down the extremists in our midst ourselves, or help you hunt them down, to the best of our ability. We will make preaching hatred toward Jews illegal in territories under our control. We will change our school books to remove all the antisemitic crap that’s in them. We will stop glorifying terrorists on state-run media, naming schools after them and teaching kids to venerate them. > > After these 10 years, we want to declare an independent state of Palestine. We will not expel Jews living on this territory right now - they can become citizens in the new state. We will need police forces, but we will not need a military, since we know you Israelis are paranoid (quite justifiably) about it. We want to be good neighbors, with bilateral trade, good relations, mutual tourism, and we want to learn from you how you become an economic powerhouse and to emulate it for our people’s benefit." > > I lived in Israel. I am Israeli. I know Israelis. After 10 years of this, if this really happens, there will be no power in Israeli politics that will be able to prevent that Palestine state from becoming reality. If there is a referendum about it, there will be a 70%+ majority for it. > > Too bad it’s just a fantasy. There is 100% certainty that it will not happen. And what would Israel do in return during those 10 years? Or is all good will supposed to spring from the Palestinian side of the conflict, cuz you’re kinda asking for a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/503 "2014-07-20T02:47:35Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Right but you made the comparison to between Abbas and Hamas vs. Mexico and drug cartels. Mexico’s military is in direct conflict attempting to disrupt the cartels while Abbas and the unity government has not, aside from bromides, done anything material to stop the rockets. > > I sympathize with Abbas and his position. I think he’d much rather achieve economic development and security for Gaza and the West Bank prior to moving onto negotiations but he is is no way, shape or form an influence on anything that Hamas chooses to do. And so we punish Abbas’s constituents for what Hamas’s constituents, who have been denied any election since Hamas took power and who knows if Hamas could ever win another election in the area again. If I was the USA, this is what I would push for, continuing free and fair election on a regular basis. I don’t think democracies act the way Gaza acts for very long. I mean, are the Palestinians really so different from anyone else that they would put the grudges of their dead ancestors ahead of the hopes and dreams of their children if they are given hopes and dreams for their children instead of a life of squalor? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/504 "2014-07-20T03:07:34Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Much of what Terr posted was out of date. Yes, Palestinian national consciousness wasn’t terribly widespread in the 1930s, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t now. > > Just a few decades prior to Terr’s quotes most “Arabs” certainly didn’t consider themselves Arabs. > > However the most recent poll shows very little support amongst the Palestinians for a two state solution and that a solid majority think the only acceptable solution would be for the complete liberation of Palestine “from the river to the sea”(meaning the elimination of Israel). > > [http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4534910,00.html](http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4534910,00.html) > > A poll barely a month ago from the Washington Institute of Near Eastern Policy found that 60% of the Palestinians in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip reject the idea of two state solution and support working towards having a completely independent Palestinian state “from the River to the Sea” while less than 30% support a two state solution. > > Before tries anything stupid like arguing that they mean “a secular binational Palestine where Jews and Palestinians are treated equally” the poll also found that : > > To anyone paying attention this isn’t shocking. > > Even Palestinians as moderate as the late Edward Said of Columbia University and Hany Abu Assad have said they’d only support a two state solution if it would clearly be a temporary step towards a completely free independent Palestine. Then is there no hope? Should I just forget about that area of the world and just stock up on potassium iodide pills?☹ ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/505 "2014-07-20T03:10:33Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Hamas’ belief is that Israel’s greatest sin is that it exists. That’s what they want Israel to stop doing. People keep conflating Hamas with all Palestinians and justify treating all Palestinians like shit because of what Hamas does. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/506 "2014-07-20T03:14:53Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > The point in question was when did the united States of American become the United States of America. Some people say it was the Civil War. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/507 "2014-07-20T03:22:58Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > See, the problem here is hyperbole. Counter-battery fire against someone shooting at you may be right or it may be wrong, but it isn’t a “selfish asshole” act. I don’t think he was just referring to the current conflict. See West Bank Settlements and discriminatory laws (many of which get struck down by the Supreme Court and some that don’t ([Israeli apartheid - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_the_apartheid_analogy#Israeli_citizenship_law)) leading to accusations of second class citizenship and comparisons to apartheid by members of that same Supreme Court. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/508 "2014-07-20T03:31:24Z")
> [@Johnny\_Cashless](#): > > You’re stuck circa 2006. You are far from alone. > > Coming soon: the real reasons why Israel wants those tunnels and why everything else is a cover for that. One day, we might get you up-to-date. I’m in the dark. Why does israel want those tunnels other than for the stated reasons? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/509 "2014-07-20T03:38:29Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Even if it’s hopeless I can sorta respect the whole “throw rocks at giants” mindset. Live on your feet, not on your knees, that whole cliche spiel. But launching thousands of rockets and not killing anyone? And then you get smacked down like a kid, come on. How embarrassing is that for the guys on the ground trying to hype up the holy cause? Sure, many want to be martyrs, but I’d want my death to mean _something_. You’d think they’d kill someone by chance eventually. Reminds me of school shooters who expend hundreds of rounds of ammunition and kill like three people even though everyone is stuffed into classrooms. You’re doing it wrong. I think the phrase is “better to die on your feet than live on your knees” and you’d be surprised how hard it is to hit something with a projectile (especially when there are bomb shelters on every block), I remember a police shootout in a deserted parking lot where almost a hundred rounds were fired and noone got hit. At this point I don’t think rocket attacks CAN be effective at anything more than disrupting the morning commute at least until they can get a nuclear device. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/510 "2014-07-20T03:42:51Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I have. Normal people believe that the bloodthirsty Palestinians should stop shooting their vengeance weapons into Israel. > > IF the Palestinian goal is a peaceful settlement. > > IF the Palestinian goal is to destroy Israel and murder as many Israelis as possible, then launching vengeance weapons is the way to go. > > And Israel will continue to DEFEND itself. Hamas /= Palestinians any more than Irgun = Zionists How in the hell are rocket attacks going to help Hamas destroy Israel (heck I get the distinct impression that they’d kill more Israelis by loading their rockets with peanut dust). ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/511 "2014-07-20T03:47:08Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > Yes, they knew the kids were dead and kept the relatives in false hope for political reasons. > > Meanwhile the NBC reporter who saw the four children blown to bits on the beach has been withdrawn, with his producer, and replaced by staff carefully chosen to make sure they don’t speak Arabic. A CNN reporter has also been reassigned because she criticised some Israelis who were cheering the bombing of Gazan civilians and were also issuing death threats against herself. cite? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/512 "2014-07-20T03:48:26Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I don’t think Gandhi believed his method would work against Nazis. No, the method he proposed for the Jews was far worse. He said the Jews should have committed mass suicide to sway the opinions of the Germans and the world. In a world where the Nazis created gas chambers to get around the psychological toll of shooting civilians, Gandhi would have had the Jews make their extermination that much easier by pulling the trigger themselves. > [@Gandhi and Stalin: Two Signs At The World's Crossroads](#): > > “Hitler,” Gandhi solemnly affirmed, “killed five million Jews. It is the greatest crime of our time. But the Jews should have offered themselves to the butcher’s knife. They should have thrown themselves into the sea from cliffs. I believe in hara-kiri. I do not believe in its militaristic connotations, but it is a heroic method.” > > “You think,” I said, “that the Jews should have committed collective suicide?” > > “Yes,” Gandhi agreed,” that would have been heroism. It would have aroused the world and the people of Germany to the evils of Hitler’s violence, especially in 1938, before the war. As it is they succumbed anyway in their millions.” ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/513 "2014-07-20T03:53:15Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Hamas /= Palestinians any more than Irgun = Zionists > > How in the hell are rocket attacks going to help Hamas destroy Israel (heck I get the distinct impression that they’d kill more Israelis by loading their rockets with peanut dust). Neither here or there but interesting factoid: there is [very little peanut allergy in Israel](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19000582), speulatively because of early exposure of babies to a peanut-based snack called Bamba. That is all. ---
**Author:** ![rsa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rsa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsa)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/514 "2014-07-20T04:11:27Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > cite? I believe these are what s/he was referring to. [Questions Surround NBC’s Removal Of Ayman Mohyeldin From Gaza](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/17/nbc-news-ayman-mohyeldin-gaza_n_5596268.html) [NBC correspondent returns to Gaza](http://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/nbc-correspondent-ayman-mohyeldin-returns-to-gaza-109131.html) [CNN Removes Reporter Diana Magnay From Israel-Gaza After ‘Scum’ Tweet](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/18/cnn-diana-magnay-israel-gaza_n_5598866.html) ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/515 "2014-07-20T04:24:28Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > And what would Israel do in return during those 10 years? Or is all good will supposed to spring from the Palestinian side of the conflict, cuz you’re kinda asking for a lot. Asking Palestinians to stop killing Jews is apparently “asking for a lot”. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/516 "2014-07-20T04:34:02Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Neither here or there but interesting factoid: there is [very little peanut allergy in Israel](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19000582), speulatively because of early exposure of babies to a peanut-based snack called Bamba. > > That is all. Gluten maybe?😕 ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/517 "2014-07-20T04:36:36Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > No, the method he proposed for the Jews was far worse. He said the Jews should have committed mass suicide to sway the opinions of the Germans and the world. In a world where the Nazis created gas chambers to get around the psychological toll of shooting civilians, Gandhi would have had the Jews make their extermination that much easier by pulling the trigger themselves. Jeez, I can only imagine what he would have thought the Palestinians should do. I would have thought maybe a death march towards a Israeli entry checkpoint. Now, I’m thinking societal self immolation. I wonder if Gandhi would have suggested this if Hitler was exterminating Indians. Maybe Gandhi wasn’t who I think he was. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/518 "2014-07-20T04:38:19Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Asking Palestinians to stop killing Jews is apparently “asking for a lot”. Stopping armed struggle for freedom for ten years is asking a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/519 "2014-07-20T04:40:19Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Stopping armed struggle for freedom for ten years is asking a lot. Yes, 66 years of the “armed struggle” (if you can call blowing up buses and pizzerias “armed struggle”) really helped them, didn’t they? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/520 "2014-07-20T04:49:23Z")
> [@rsa](#): > > I believe these are what s/he was referring to. > > [Questions Surround NBC’s Removal Of Ayman Mohyeldin From Gaza](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/17/nbc-news-ayman-mohyeldin-gaza_n_5596268.html) > > [NBC correspondent returns to Gaza](http://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/nbc-correspondent-ayman-mohyeldin-returns-to-gaza-109131.html) > > [CNN Removes Reporter Diana Magnay From Israel-Gaza After ‘Scum’ Tweet](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/18/cnn-diana-magnay-israel-gaza_n_5598866.html) Hrmm. :mad: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856.md?page=27)