# airstrikes on Gaza **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 11, 2014, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856 "2014-07-11T14:55:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/41 "2014-07-11T17:07:13Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > How would you make that judgement? In your view, as long as they’re doing “the best they can” to avoid hitting civilians, is that good enough, even if they know every single one of their Hamas targets is surrounded by civilians and large numbers of civilian casualties are inevitable? Is there a response that you would consider appropriate if Hamas had killed a hundred Israelis, but that you wouldn’t consider appropriate if Hamas had killed, say, five, or zero? Or do you feel like that makes no difference in what level of response is appropriate? I look to what is reported about what measures Israel actually takes to prevent civilian casualties. Apparently, they do take such measures. The problem with the “toting up corpses” method of determining moral culpability is that, assuming for the sake of argument that Israeli military acts are actually in fact working (defined here as ‘destroying Hamas military capability and effectively ruining its attacks on Israeli civilians’), your chosen method would lead to the inescapable conclusion that Israel is in the moral wrong. Which strikes me as the exact opposite of the correct conclusion. > [@](#): > > As in my response to **Fotheringay-Phipps** , I’m happy to be educated on this point. In addition to my questions I asked him, I’d be interested to know whether the “cease fire” was negotiated in some way, and if a third party was involved, or if Hamas eventually just gave up. It’s a lengthy and complex history. Just as an example: > **[Hamas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#Gaza_War)** > > The Islamic Resistance Movement, abbreviated Hamas\[c\] (an Arabic acronym from Arabic: حركة المقاومة الإسلامية, romanized: Ḥarakat al-Muqāwamah al-ʾIslāmiyyah),\[d\] is a Palestinian nationalist Sunni Islamist political organisation with a military wing called the Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades. It has governed the Israeli-occupied Gaza Strip since 2007. > The Hamas movement was founded by Palestinian Islamic scholar Ahmed Yassin in 1987, after the outbreak of the First Intifada against the Israel... Note that such cease-fires were brokered by Egypt - unlikely to be repeated, as Egypt is in the process of cracking down on the Muslim Brotherhood and Egypt/Hamas relations are, I understand, none too good. > [@](#): > > Maybe in the short term. It seems possible to me that if Israel _consistently_ pursued a strategy of non-violence and diplomacy with the Palestinians, it could _eventually_ lead to some sort of lasting peace, even if it might take a couple decades to get there. (I’ll probably be called naive for saying so, but so be it.) Whereas if they respond to every Palestinian attack with disproportionate force, I find it unlikely that things will be any better 50 years from now. Hamas is a religious organization and its opposition to Israel is not based on practical considerations. Moreover, its popularity in Gaza was not a result of Israeli harshness, but rather a reaction against the perceived corruption in the PA. > [@](#): > > _These_ attacks aren’t an existential threat to Israel. Or I guess you’re saying that if they didn’t authorize the attacks, others would be elected who would? But I don’t really think a politician trying to save their own job is a good reason for killing a hundred people. > > And in this case, it would probably guarantee that the total number of children killed on both sides was much, much lower. They aren’t an existential threat to Israel - but then, terrorism generally isn’t. The point is not to destroy Israel (now), but to weaken it, wear it down, destroy its morale. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/42 "2014-07-11T17:10:36Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > . . . what’s the right response for Israel to take . . . Hamas has repeatedly launched rockets (and other attacks) at Israeli citizens. To a large extent, that they have succeeded in killing no Israelis is a reflection of their poor equipment, their general incompetence in rocketry, and Israel’s use of the Iron Dome shield. Israel has responded to those repeated attacks by targeting rocket delivery sites and the Hamas leadership. Yes, those targets are located in civilian areas, but their only other option is to grin and bear it, just as they have been doing for years. Are you suggesting that the latter is the preferred Israeli response? ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/43 "2014-07-11T17:11:16Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that it’s more Hamas’s fault than Israel’s. It doesn’t necessarily follow that Israel’s actions are moral and justified. If someone walks up to me and shoves me to the ground, and I respond by pulling out a gun and shooting them, I would say (1) The altercation was primarily their fault, and (2) my response was disproportionate and not morally justified (unless I believed my life was actually in danger). > > To be clear, I am not trying to suggest in any way that Hamas’s actions are moral, or even that they’re more moral than Israel. I’m trying to discuss what’s the right response for Israel to take, which is more of a concern for me because they’re the side with the power to kill large numbers of people. Thankfully Hamas isn’t nearly so well armed. First off, a better analogy would be someone walking up to you, pulling a gun out and missing you. At which point you shoot the gun out of their hand unfortunately scarring them. You seem to be saying that you should have allowed them to reload. Hamas has deliberately elected to provoke a military response _knowing_ (and I guess hoping) it would kill civilians in Gaza. The moral crisis should be amongst Hamas supporters. Consider that in [1982 the Syrian military wiped out a city](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_Hama_massacre) over the course of a month killing between 10,000 and 40,000 people. That’s what an excessive military attack would look, like not this current state of affairs. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/44 "2014-07-11T17:12:48Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > The fact that Hamas has so far succeeded in killing 0 Israeli civilians is reasonable proof that Israel’s actions are, in fact, working. _Post hoc ergo propter hoc_ though, right? Isn’t it possible that the reason that Hamas has so far succeeded in killing 0 Israeli civilians is a) their (Hamas’) equipment sucks, b) their training sucks, c) Iron Dome works, or d) some combination of the above? Is there any reason to believe that the airstrikes themselves are the reason Hamas haven’t managed to kill any Israeli civilians? ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/45 "2014-07-11T17:14:59Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > Not to be a SDMB cliche, but can you provide a link to such media reports? This may well be true, but I haven’t read it in the coverage I’ve seen. [CBC](http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel-leader-benjamin-netanyahu-world-pressure-won-t-stop-offensive-1.2703698) [NY Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/09/world/middleeast/by-phone-and-leaflet-israeli-attackers-warn-gazans.html?_r=0) [CNN](http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/10/world/meast/mideast-tensions/) [NY Post](http://nypost.com/2014/07/11/lebanese-rocket-strikes-israel-as-gaza-offensive-continues/) _Israel uses its weapons to protect it citizens. Hamas uses its citizens to protect its weapons._ ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/46 "2014-07-11T17:16:02Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > I’m surprised there isn’t already a thread on this (or maybe I just missed it). Now up to 100 Palestinians in Gaza killed by Israeli airstrikes, and hundreds more injured. [Gaza crisis: Death toll from Israeli strikes 'hits 100' - BBC News](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28263669) > > So far as I understand, the Palestinian rocket fire hasn’t killed any Israelis, but has caused some injuries and property damage. > > Anyone care to defend Israel here? I’m not sure what the right thing for Israel to do here is, but airstrikes against civilian areas can’t be it. Even just in terms of Israeli interests, I don’t see how they’re helping themselves. Having images of dead Palestinian children on the news just alienates their allies and encourages further attacks. How about the Israeli children who were kidnapped and killed? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/47 "2014-07-11T17:19:49Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > It’s hard for me to imagine that you really believe this. > > I have a feeling that if the Israelis decided they “might as well kill” all the Palestinians you would be even more critical than you are now. > > I don’t take this suggestion seriously, even in the unlikely event that this is how you meant it. Which leaves the question effectively unanswered. Oh, sure I’d be critical of genocide. But where is it all headed now? if you can’t afford to give them any breathing room because they’re just going to take a breath and attack you anyways and you really don’t seem to see any way to get them to stop attacking you other than by hitting them so hard they lose the will to fight (like I said, its been 60 years, they seem as wilful as ever). > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > You’re wrong about that. Hamas has survival instincts like anyone else. In the past they have made cease-fires - although these go against their credo - in response to Israel bombardments. So that’s their problem! If they had never ceased fire, Israel would stop thinking that military strikes worked. So if Hamas’s survival was at stake, why did Israel let up? If the bombardments worked so well in the past why do they need to keep doing them? Maybe these bombardments aren’t doing what you think they are doing. The original aggressors against Israel in 1948 are all dead of old age. Where are all the new militants coming from? Surely, Israel’s actions have NOTHING to do with the creation of new militants. I guess arabs are just crazy and so deeply genetically anti-semetic that they just can’t help hating Jews. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/48 "2014-07-11T17:21:52Z")
I don’t know much about this conflict. But isn’t Hamas both (1) the elected government and (2) arranging the attacks on Israel? If another country attacks yours, isn’t your country allowed to hit back in whatever fashion until they stop? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/49 "2014-07-11T17:26:00Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Oh, sure I’d be critical of genocide. But where is it all headed now? if you can’t afford to give them any breathing room because they’re just going to take a breath and attack you anyways and you really don’t seem to see any way to get them to stop attacking you other than by hitting them so hard they lose the will to fight (like I said, its been 60 years, they seem as wilful as ever). Exactly. I’m not sure what you’re point is with this. You need to evaluate a given course of action against practical alternatives, not against hypothetical ideals. > [@](#): > > So that’s their problem! If they had never ceased fire, Israel would stop thinking that military strikes worked. True. What are you trying to suggest with this? That Hamas should never agree to cease-fires so that Israel should give up on trying to pressure it into ceasefires? In any event, they made the ceasefire for a reason. > [@](#): > > So if Hamas’s survival was at stake, why did Israel let up? I don’t recall saying that Hamas’ survival was at stake. There’s a cost to these battles for both sides. > [@](#): > > If the bombardments worked so well in the past why do they need to keep doing them? Maybe these bombardments aren’t doing what you think they are doing. They work temporarily. In the absence of a permanent solution, temporary solutions are better than nothing. See above. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/50 "2014-07-11T17:26:35Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] . . . something of an overreaction. [/QUOTE] Do you believe Israel is under a moral obligation to allow Hamas to have some success before they retaliate? IOW if you call the police to complain that people are driving by your house shooting at it, you think the response should be “get back to us once someone dies.” Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/51 "2014-07-11T17:27:05Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > How about the Israeli children who were kidnapped and killed? That was a horrible, despicable crime. But I don’t really think these airstrikes make it less likely that such a thing will happen in the future. Do you? ---
**Author:** ![Batistuta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/58956e/32.png) [@Batistuta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batistuta)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/52 "2014-07-11T17:27:06Z")
> [@mr.jp](#): > > I don’t know much about this conflict. But isn’t Hamas both (1) the elected government and (2) arranging the attacks on Israel? If another country attacks yours, isn’t your country allowed to hit back\*\* in whatever fashion until they stop?\*\* Not entirely. There is a principle of proportionality in international law. So while Israel is right to fight back, it can’t do so in whichever way it pleases ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/53 "2014-07-11T17:28:10Z")
> [@](#): > > So far as I understand, the Palestinian rocket fire hasn’t killed any Israelis, but has caused some injuries and property damage. Why do you feel this is a key point? Is Israel only allowed to respond with deadly force to an attack on their sovereign territory if it’s citizens are killed? Otherwise it’s no harm, no foul?? What other country in the world would restrain itself if it came under external/outside direct attack? > [@](#): > > Anyone care to defend Israel here? Others have already done so, with the usual results. Would you, instead, care to defend Hamas here? They decided to attack Israel from within the shelter of their own people, knowing what the response would be and knowing that it would be their own people who would take the brunt of the retaliation. Would you care to defend this action from a moral standpoint? > [@](#): > > I’m not sure what the right thing for Israel to do here is, but airstrikes against civilian areas can’t be it. They could send in troops I guess. Or use artillery. Or basically do nothing. That’s about all the options available. Doing nothing doesn’t seem a viable option, and my guess is the other two would actually cause greater body counts in terms of both civilian and Hamas/Israel. > [@](#): > > Even just in terms of Israeli interests, I don’t see how they’re helping themselves. They didn’t initiate hostilities, so this entire thing wasn’t supposed to be in their interests…it’s a reaction to an attack. Which is the whole point of why Hamas is doing this sort of shit. Again…would you care to tackle justifying Hamas actions in moral terms? > [@](#): > > Having images of dead Palestinian children on the news just alienates their allies and encourages further attacks. Which, again, was the intended result. Which is why Hamas did what they did. Sadly, Israel’s options are extremely limited. As noted, they could invade with troops. Not going to be very popular. They could use air or artillery strikes. Same results. They could do nothing. Which would obviously invite further attacks and wouldn’t be popular with the voters in Israel. They could wish upon a star and hope that Hamas stops attacking them. I suppose they could surrender and move away…which is about the only thing Hamas would accept (probably tossing rockets at them the whole time). ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/54 "2014-07-11T17:29:39Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > You mean the kid murdered (in retaliation for the Hamas murders) by Israeli extremist thugs - the ones the Israelis promptly arrested? YES!!! THAT kid. Where was he from? And WHO killed him? Where were THEY from? > [@](#): > > Seems to me that if Hamas did likewise - that is, arrest their murderous thugs when they kill someone - none of this would be happening. Seems to me that if the Zionists hadn’t carved a country out of already occupied land, none of this would be happening. > [@](#): > > Huh? When did Mexico and Canada start firing rockets into the US? Its a hypothetical. If we treated them the way Israel treats the Palestinians, I suspect they would fire rockets (or do something equally provocative). Then we would have no choice but to bombard Toronto and Tijuana, they would be forcing our hand, really. > [@](#): > > I honestly can’t tell if you are being sarcastic here or not. Which worries me. Well, I’m being a bit sarcastic about the final solution but Israel has already expropriated Palestinians property, they have gathered them into ghettos, they conduct military attacks against those ghettos. I doubt we’ll actually see death camps but these Palestinians are never going to just lay down and play dead. So either there is a middle ground that can be reached or there isn’t and when there are irreconcilable differences between peoples, what solution is there? Just keep going on like this? You don’t think the power balance will ever change? You don’t think they’ll ever get a nuke? ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/55 "2014-07-11T17:32:15Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > First off, a better analogy would be someone walking up to you, pulling a gun out and missing you. At which point you shoot the gun out of their hand unfortunately scarring them. You seem to be saying that you should have allowed them to reload. I don’t really think that’s a better analogy in terms of capturing the relative scale of the two actions. The Israeli response has been to kill 100 people (so far). Hamas doesn’t appear to have a gun that big. > [@](#): > > Hamas has deliberately elected to provoke a military response _knowing_ (and I guess hoping) it would kill civilians in Gaza. The moral crisis should be amongst Hamas supporters. Again, Hamas being in the wrong doesn’t necessarily make Israel in the right. > [@](#): > > Consider that in [1982 the Syrian military wiped out a city](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_Hama_massacre) over the course of a month killing between 10,000 and 40,000 people. That’s what an excessive military attack would look, like not this current state of affairs. I certainly agree that that’s _more_ disproportionate. And of course we can find even worse examples than that. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/56 "2014-07-11T17:34:49Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Damuri Ajashi: > > Well, the guy with the boot on his neck could, you know, surrender and formally agree to cease hostilities, with a genuine treaty. Once the one wearing the boot has some assurance that removing the boot won’t result in renewed attack, then the boot can be removed, and the neck can be free. Sure, I suppose unconditional surrender could work. But its been 60 years and there is no sign of unconditional surrender. So I guess we are just stuck at the boot on the neck impasse. Would Israel believe them if this was offered? Who would they hold accountable when a splinter faction of Hamas broke off and continued to blow shit up? When South Africa eliminated apartheid, all the white folks were afraid that there was going to be a white genocide and it didn’t happen. Sometimes the victims aren’t as evil as the oppressors. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/57 "2014-07-11T17:35:32Z")
> [@mr.jp](#): > > I don’t know much about this conflict. But isn’t Hamas both (1) the elected government and (2) arranging the attacks on Israel? If another country attacks yours, isn’t your country allowed to hit back in whatever fashion until they stop? Well, no. Not in whatever fashion. I would think there are some responses (e.g., kill every man, woman, and child in the opposing country) that we would all agree are way over the line as a response to a largely-ineffectual series of attacks that posed no existential danger whatsoever to the stronger country. So then it’s just a matter of where do you draw the line. ---
**Author:** ![Batistuta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/58956e/32.png) [@Batistuta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batistuta)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/58 "2014-07-11T17:43:01Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > When South Africa eliminated apartheid, all the white folks were afraid that there was going to be a white genocide and it didn’t happen. Sometimes the victims aren’t as evil as the oppressors. Well that’s not a problematic analogy at all… ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/59 "2014-07-11T17:43:43Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > . . . the way Israel treats the Palestinians . . . Ah, the ‘Israelis-have-it-coming-because-they-oppress-the-poor-Palestinians’ meme. Why do you suppose the Israelis treat them that way (I assume you are referring to the rigid work, travel, and movement restrictions, and the ‘walling off’, etc)? Well, when the Palestinians were not under such restrictions, too often they used their mobility, their ‘freedom’, in order to infiltrate into and then terrorize Israeli citizens. Over and over and over again. And again. Once more, it seems, the preferred solution in the minds of some is that Israel should just grin and bear it. Just like they had been doing for the repeated rocket attacks. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/60 "2014-07-11T17:43:53Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > So then it’s just a matter of where do you draw the line. Okay then - where would **you** draw the line? Presumably there is a point between “doing nothing” and “airstrikes” that would better than what is happening now - either it would be more likely to bring an end to the rocket attacks, or would convince Hamas to negotiate a settlement and stick to it, or in some sense would be desirable vs. whatever is happening today. What do you think that point is, and what makes you think it is more attainable than bombing the rocket launchers? Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856.md?page=4)