# airstrikes on Gaza **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 11, 2014, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856 "2014-07-11T14:55:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/581 "2014-07-22T18:31:29Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Right so they are only barring arabs that they have some exuse to keep out. I understand that they need a pretext to have any chance of surviving judicial review. How many immigrants did, say, England accept from Germany during WW1? Or vice versa? It is hardly unusual to avoid acceptig immigrants (except maybe those fleeing the regime as refugees) from nations with which one is at war. > [@](#): > > Yes but if security and fear of suicide bombs is the concern then why the heck to national level treaties matter? Because it is unacceptable within the law of nations (not the law of human rights) to make a blanket exclusion of a “friendly” nation’s nationals. It is an insult, not to the citizens affected, but to the other nation. > [@](#): > > Thanks, I had only been going by wiki articles. Its kind of hard to read but based on teh headnotes, it seems like this law might not survive a second challenge if justive Levy is still on the court. It may very well not, given that it was a narrow majority. It could easily have gone the other way. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/582 "2014-07-22T21:51:25Z")
> **[For second time, rockets found at UN school in Gaza](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-second-time-rockets-found-at-un-school-in-gaza/)** > > 'How many more schools will have to be abused by Hamas missile squads before the international community will intervene?' Foreign Ministry fumes For the second time in less than a week, rockets have been found in a school in Gaza operated by the United Nations Relief and Works Agency, the body said. Twice - that points to systematic use of UNRWA schools as storage for rockets. Add to that the fact that in the first find of rockets, a couple of days ago, UNRWA transferred the rockets to Hamas police - and you get an interesting picture of how UN operates in Gaza. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/583 "2014-07-23T02:43:03Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Damuri Ajashi: > > The attitudes of one filter down from the other. When a government allows Israeli companies to trade with its citizens and Israeli tourists to put money into its hotels (and bell boys) and restaurants (and waiters) and publishes textbooks which have Israel on the map instead of “occupied Palestine” and refer to Israel by name rather than calling it “the Zionist entity”, and the military and police feel bound by treaty to prevent rather than support acts that will undermine the government’s peace with Israel, then guess what…you have a populace that is orders of magnitude more peacefully-inclined toward Israel than that of the governments that do the opposite. > > Does that mean 100% support for Israel’s policies? No, but the peace treaty doesn’t mean that even for the government. Yes, there are people protesting in Egypt. But also, Egyptians are much less likely than Pakistanis to try backdoor tactics to gain access to Israel for would-be terrorists. So you don’t think this law is discriminatory either? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/584 "2014-07-23T02:45:35Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > It’s a dumb way of achieving that goal. So, occam’s razor, it strikes me as unlikely that the intent is to slow the population growth of Arabs by using a method that ignores Israel’s main Arab neighbours in favor of preventing Israel from being overrun by hordes of Pakistanis. Just how big an issue do you think the Pakistani migration to Israel is? Because they have a pretext to do so. I get it, you don’t think the law is discriminatory, I disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/585 "2014-07-23T02:49:00Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > How many immigrants did, say, England accept from Germany during WW1? Or vice versa? > > It is hardly unusual to avoid acceptig immigrants (except maybe those fleeing the regime as refugees) from nations with which one is at war. I believe the entire arab league has offered peace and according to some of the posters here, Israel has no need to be concerned about any of them, Only hamas. > [@](#): > > Because it is unacceptable within the law of nations (not the law of human rights) to make a blanket exclusion of a “friendly” nation’s nationals. It is an insult, not to the citizens affected, but to the other nation. And THATS why they aren’t applying the law to Ehyptians. > [@](#): > > It may very well not, given that it was a narrow majority. It could easily have gone the other way. The headnote on Justice Levy’s position seems to say that the only reason he did n’t overturn was because it would have left a hole in the security apparatus and that he might not support the law if Israel did not apply an exclusionary rule based on individuals not a blanket exclusion based on nationality. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/586 "2014-07-23T02:54:01Z")
> [@rsa](#): > > I believe these are what s/he was referring to. > > [Questions Surround NBC’s Removal Of Ayman Mohyeldin From Gaza](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/17/nbc-news-ayman-mohyeldin-gaza_n_5596268.html) > > [NBC correspondent returns to Gaza](http://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/nbc-correspondent-ayman-mohyeldin-returns-to-gaza-109131.html) > > [CNN Removes Reporter Diana Magnay From Israel-Gaza After ‘Scum’ Tweet](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/18/cnn-diana-magnay-israel-gaza_n_5598866.html) > **[MSNBC Contributor Accuses Network Of 'Biased' Coverage Toward Israel](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/rula-jebreal-msnbc-palestinians-airtime_n_5606673?cps=gravity)** > > MSNBC Contributor Accuses Network Of 'Biased' Coverage Toward Israel ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/587 "2014-07-23T03:00:38Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > [MSNBC Contributor Accuses Network Of 'Biased' Coverage Toward Israel | HuffPost Latest News](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/21/rula-jebreal-msnbc-palestinians-airtime_n_5606673.html?cps=gravity) Really? Ok - let’s do this: I will give you 10 (could give you many more) clips from US mass media sources showing Israeli soldiers fighting in Gaza. You give me 2 clips from US mass media sources showing Hamas militants fighting in Gaza. Wonder if you will be able to find any. If you watch US news, you may get an idea that Israeli soldiers are just rampaging in Gaza and there is no one but civilians on the other side. Talk about biased coverage. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/588 "2014-07-23T14:02:24Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Because they have a pretext to do so. > > I get it, you don’t think the law is discriminatory, I disagree. That isn’t the question, though. The issue is the intent behind the law. Whether you agree with the majority (law is not discriminatory because it makes a justified distinction between enemy nationals and others) or the minority (law is discriminatory and not saved by its security intention because a blanket prohibition is excessive) is quite irrelevant. Your point I took it was that the intent behind the law was to work demographic change in Israel. Mine is that whether you side with the minority or majority, no-one is saying that the intent behind the law was to work demographic change, and the law is a poor way of doing that. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/589 "2014-07-23T14:43:36Z")
Damuri Ajashi: > [@](#): > > So you don’t think this law is discriminatory either? Of course, by dictionary definition, it discriminates. But the distinction between nationals of different foreign countries depending on how hostile said countries are to Israel, is a reasonable one to make. One might also consider “discriminatory” the fact that many Muslim countries will not allow entry to holders of Israeli passports, and some of those, further, will not allow entry to anyone holding a passport from another nation that has an Israeli stamp in it. When it comes to foreigners, discrimination between friendlies and unfriendlies is very much within a nation’s right. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/590 "2014-07-23T15:15:40Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Really? > > Ok - let’s do this: > > I will give you 10 (could give you many more) clips from US mass media sources showing Israeli soldiers fighting in Gaza. > > You give me 2 clips from US mass media sources showing Hamas militants fighting in Gaza. Wonder if you will be able to find any. > > If you watch US news, you may get an idea that Israeli soldiers are just rampaging in Gaza and there is no one but civilians on the other side. Talk about biased coverage. I thought I was just adding another example of how people who criticize israel are treated. The point of the article wasn’t that the media is in the bag for Israel, its that critics of Israel seem to be getting punished. How about you show me three examples where people seem to be getting punished for supprting israel or criticizing Hamas. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/591 "2014-07-23T15:23:00Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > That isn’t the question, though. The issue is the intent behind the law. > > Whether you agree with the majority (law is not discriminatory because it makes a justified distinction between enemy nationals and others) or the minority (law is discriminatory and not saved by its security intention because a blanket prohibition is excessive) is quite irrelevant. > > Your point I took it was that the intent behind the law was to work demographic change in Israel. Mine is that whether you side with the minority or majority, no-one is saying that the intent behind the law was to work demographic change, and the law is a poor way of doing that. I think the demographic change is a happy side effect of a racist law. The law was first raised in the context of how shitty Israel behaves towards palestinians (and the original law was targetted at Palestinians). I think you might have forgetten the context in which this tangent was broguht up in post 552 where i said: “It seems like this law has the happy \ ***UNINTENDED** /i] side effect of reducing the growth rate of the arab population in Israel” I am saying that the law was racist from inception and is an example of how shitty Israel treats the Palestinians. But if you want to keep defending this law, it seems like you have plenty of company on this board. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/592 "2014-07-23T15:25:20Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I thought I was just adding another example of how people who criticize israel are treated. The point of the article wasn’t that the media is in the bag for Israel, its that critics of Israel seem to be getting punished. How about you show me three examples where people seem to be getting punished for supprting israel or criticizing Hamas. How about the very first link in the post you cited? > [@](#): > > There’s been speculation that Mohyeldin could have rankled NBC News executives with a since-removed tweet and Facebook post describing the State Department as having said it considered Hamas ultimately responsible for the Israeli strike on the beach because it did not agree to a ceasefire. From: [Questions Surround NBC's Removal Of Ayman Mohyeldin From Gaza | HuffPost Latest News](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/17/nbc-news-ayman-mohyeldin-gaza_n_5596268.html) ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/593 "2014-07-23T15:30:32Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I think the demographic change is a happy side effect of a racist law. The law was first raised in the context of how shitty Israel behaves towards palestinians (and the original law was targetted at Palestinians). > > I think you might have forgetten the context in which this tangent was broguht up in post 552 where i said: > > “It seems like this law has the happy \ ***UNINTENDED** /i] side effect of reducing the growth rate of the arab population in Israel” > > I am saying that the law was racist from inception and is an example of how shitty Israel treats the Palestinians. > > But if you want to keep defending this law, it seems like you have plenty of company on this board. First, there is no evidence it has any such effect. As I’ve pointed out repeatedly, it is a damn stupid way of achieving that effect, and no evidence has been presented that it will change Arab demographics one bit. Second, I object to the notion that the law is “racist”. It has nothing to do with “race”. It disriminates against certain countries it is true, but based on the fact of their emnity, not of the race of their populations. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/594 "2014-07-23T15:31:30Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Damuri Ajashi: > > Of course, by dictionary definition, it discriminates. But the distinction between nationals of different foreign countries depending on how hostile said countries are to Israel, is a reasonable one to make. > > One might also consider “discriminatory” the fact that many Muslim countries will not allow entry to holders of Israeli passports, and some of those, further, will not allow entry to anyone holding a passport from another nation that has an Israeli stamp in it. When it comes to foreigners, discrimination between friendlies and unfriendlies is very much within a nation’s right. More Israel apologetics. Not honoring Israeli passports is diplomatic because some countries simply don’t recognize Israel as a country (they’re not all muslim). Israel could eliminate this by accepting the terms of the arab peace initiative and I suspect Israel would be recognized not only by all the arab states but places like Malaysia as well. I don’t think Indonesia is concerned about Israeli tourists committing acts of war under an Israeli passport. So which of these countries will not extend marriage citizenship to people from Israel? Not recognizing passports that have an Israeli stamp sounds like it might be racism. Do you have a cite? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/595 "2014-07-23T15:34:48Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > More Israel apologetics. > > Not honoring Israeli passports is diplomatic because some countries simply don’t recognize Israel as a country (they’re not all muslim). Israel could eliminate this by accepting the terms of the arab peace initiative and I suspect Israel would be recognized not only by all the arab states but places like Malaysia as well. I don’t think Indonesia is concerned about Israeli tourists committing acts of war under an Israeli passport. > > So which of these countries will not extend marriage citizenship to people from Israel? > > Not recognizing passports that have an Israeli stamp sounds like it might be racism. Do you have a cite? Saudi Arabia will not accept Jews, whether Israeli or not. > **[History of the Jews in Saudi Arabia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Saudi_Arabia#Modern_Era)** > > The history of the Jews in Saudi Arabia begins in classical antiquity. > By the 6th and 7th centuries there was a considerable Jewish population in Hejaz (largely around Medina) and in Yemen due to the embrace of Judaism by the Himyarite Kingdom in the fourth century. Jewish leadership in Yemen ended soon after Dhu Nuwas instigated a massacre of the Christian community of Najran. > According to Al-Masudi the northern part of Hejaz was a dependency of the Kingdom of Judah, and according to Butrus... ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/596 "2014-07-23T16:25:35Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > How about you show me three examples where people seem to be getting punished for supprting israel or criticizing Hamas. [Here’s four.](http://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Hamas-has-executed-four-Palestinian-collaborators-since-start-of-Gaza-operation-363286#!) Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/597 "2014-07-23T16:46:47Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Not recognizing passports that have an Israeli stamp sounds like it might be racism. Do you have a cite? [http://www.theexpeditioner.com/2012/03/14/are-you-banned-from-certain-countries-if-you-have-an-israeli-stamp-in-your-passport/](http://www.theexpeditioner.com/2012/03/14/are-you-banned-from-certain-countries-if-you-have-an-israeli-stamp-in-your-passport/) [Israel stopped stamping passports last year](https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/israel/entry-requirements) for this reason. But seriously, when you have leaders throughout the middle east who are holocaust deniers and calling for the destruction of the Zionist Entity, are you remotely surprised that they have racist policies? ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/598 "2014-07-23T17:05:25Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > More Israel apologetics. > > Not honoring Israeli passports is diplomatic because some countries simply don’t recognize Israel as a country (they’re not all muslim). Israel could eliminate this by accepting the terms of the arab peace initiative and I suspect Israel would be recognized not only by all the arab states but places like Malaysia as well. I don’t think Indonesia is concerned about Israeli tourists committing acts of war under an Israeli passport. This is the most backwards logic on the planet, and calling it Israeli apologetics is obscene. Israel could eliminate this by ceasing to exist. That is why Israeli is not recognized as a country; they do not recognize that it has a right to exist. You have perhaps heard of the Three Nos with your expertise in everything Arab? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/599 "2014-07-23T18:06:45Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Saudi Arabia will not accept Jews, whether Israeli or not. > > [History of the Jews in Saudi Arabia - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Saudi_Arabia#Modern_Era) Why isn’t Saudi Arabia on that list of nations on the Israel citizenship law? But yeah I agree that this is racism. Its one thing to protest zionist colonialism and oppression through armed conflict, its another thing to do so by simply hating Jews. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/600 "2014-07-23T18:09:50Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > [Here’s four.](http://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Hamas-has-executed-four-Palestinian-collaborators-since-start-of-Gaza-operation-363286#!) > > Regards, > Shodan So I assume from your irrelevant response that you are conceding that critics of Israel get punished while there are no consequences for criticizing Hamas in the world of US journalism. Or did you not pick up on the fact that we were talking about journalists? :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856.md?page=31)