# airstrikes on Gaza **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 11, 2014, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856 "2014-07-11T14:55:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/601 "2014-07-23T18:26:10Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > [http://www.theexpeditioner.com/2012/03/14/are-you-banned-from-certain-countries-if-you-have-an-israeli-stamp-in-your-passport/](http://www.theexpeditioner.com/2012/03/14/are-you-banned-from-certain-countries-if-you-have-an-israeli-stamp-in-your-passport/) > > [Israel stopped stamping passports last year](https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/israel/entry-requirements) for this reason. But seriously, when you have leaders throughout the middle east who are holocaust deniers and calling for the destruction of the Zionist Entity, are you remotely surprised that they have racist policies? I didn’t doubt it, I was just looking for a cite. My mother has traveled through the middle east and has been to Israel more than a few times and I don’t think she ever had a problem. But I think her travels were limited to places like Egypt, Turkey and the UAE. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/602 "2014-07-23T18:33:09Z")
No true Palestinian gets punished for supporting Israel. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/603 "2014-07-23T18:35:52Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > This is the most backwards logic on the planet, and calling it Israeli apologetics is obscene. Israel could eliminate this by ceasing to exist. That is why Israeli is not recognized as a country; they do not recognize that it has a right to exist. You have perhaps heard of the Three Nos with your expertise in everything Arab? I don’t know where you are getting this retarded idea that I ever put myself forward as an expert on everything Arab. I make fun of people who insist that I be an expert on the middle east before I can criticize Israel but thats really not the same thing as saying I’m an expert on everything Arab. And yes, I’ve heard of the three no’s and you do realize that every arab nation has signed the arab peace initiative and that more or less means that the three no’s are dead letter law. Its been dead letter law since the fall of the soviet union as far as I can tell. In fact its so dead that Israel doesn’t seem particularly interested in recognition anymore seeing as they already have de facto peace with everyone except a rag tag bunch of militant fereedom fighters/terrorists in Gaza and negotiation with the Palestinians ona fairly regular basis. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/604 "2014-07-23T18:54:30Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No true Palestinian gets punished for supporting Israel. > > Regards, > Shodan I respond to a post about two journalists who are removed or reassigned after making statements critical of Israel by posting another example of a journalist getting the shaft for being critical of Israel and someone responds with a non sequitor (about the media’s treatment of the hundreds of Palestinian deaths versus the almost much less frequent Israeli civilian deaths) so i ask for three examples of someone being punished for supporting Israel. I thought it was abundantly clear that I was talking about journalists in the USA but you respond with some examples of hamas punishing Palestinians for cooperating with Israel and when I point out I was talking about US journalists, you accuse me of true scottman fallacy. How is this true scottsman? Was it not clear from the very start I was talking about US journalists? Do you really think that hamas executions of Palestinians suspected of collaborating with Israel is relevant to my point? ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/605 "2014-07-23T19:03:23Z")
Damuri Ajashi: > [@](#): > > Not honoring Israeli passports is diplomatic because some countries simply don’t recognize Israel as a country (they’re not all muslim). So, discrimination for diplomatic reasons is acceptable, but discrimination for the sake of security is not? And, BTW, [they are all Muslim.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_passport#Countries_that_do_not_accept_Israeli_passports) > [@](#): > > Not recognizing passports that have an Israeli stamp sounds like it might be racism. Do you have a cite? The link above tells you of the eight countries in the list that have this restriction as well as the restriction on Israeli passports. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/606 "2014-07-23T19:23:09Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I respond to a post about two journalists who are removed or reassigned after making statements critical of Israel by posting another example of a journalist getting the shaft for being critical of Israel and someone responds with a non sequitor (about the media’s treatment of the hundreds of Palestinian deaths versus the almost much less frequent Israeli civilian deaths) so i ask for three examples of someone being punished for supporting Israel. **I thought it was abundantly clear** that I was talking about journalists in the USA but you respond with some examples of hamas punishing Palestinians for cooperating with Israel and when I point out I was talking about US journalists, you accuse me of true scottman fallacy. How is this true scottsman? **Was it not clear from the very start** I was talking about US journalists? Do you really think that hamas executions of Palestinians suspected of collaborating with Israel is relevant to my point? You were not clear. So your assumption that everyone else must know what you “meant” to say could be considered a failure to communicate. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/607 "2014-07-23T20:10:19Z")
What’s clear is that he is thrashing about trying to draw equivalence between Hamas and Israel. Not, I should say, with much success, but considering the facts on the ground that is not surprising. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/608 "2014-07-23T20:35:59Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > You were not clear. So your assumption that everyone else must know what you “meant” to say could be considered a failure to communicate. It was pretty clear Damuri wasn’t asking for cites about Hamas cracking down on dissidents. Shodan’s quicky response is idiotic in context. Not that the exchange he jumped in on was particularly useful. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/609 "2014-07-23T20:42:25Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Damuri Ajashi: > > So, discrimination for diplomatic reasons is acceptable, but discrimination for the sake of security is not? Its not discrimination. These countries don’t recognize passports from Damuristan or the republic of eastern Ukraine either. > [@](#): > > And, BTW, [they are all Muslim.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_passport#Countries_that_do_not_accept_Israeli_passports) Hrmm. I thought I saw Cuba on that list somewhere. > [@](#): > > The link above tells you of the eight countries in the list that have this restriction as well as the restriction on Israeli passports. Your link also says that “Under Israeli law, Iran, Pakistan, Iraq, Libya, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Syria and Yemen are designated “enemy states” and an Israeli citizen may not visit them without a special permit issued by the Israeli Interior Ministry. An Israeli citizen who visits any of these countries, whether using an Israeli or foreign passport, may be prosecuted on their return to Israel. The original list was set in 1954, and was updated only once on 25 July 2007 to include Iran” Why isn’t Saudi Arabia on the citizenship law list and why did the original law only apply to Palestinians? Do these countries deny residency or citizenship to a spouse of a citizen based on their Israeli nationality? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/610 "2014-07-23T20:43:53Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > You were not clear. So your assumption that everyone else must know what you “meant” to say could be considered a failure to communicate. OK, so maybe it was my failure to comunicate or someone elses failure to comprehend what they were reading (we do expect people to read things in context don’t we or are we supposed to recap the history of a thread in every post?) ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/611 "2014-07-23T20:49:26Z")
My understanding was that Damuri was asking about whether any journalists have been “punished” by US networks for supporting Israel, as he alleges they have been “punished” for supporting the Palestinians. The problem with this thesis is that none of the cites demonstrate journalists being “punished” for supporting Palestinians. At most, one was removed (temporarily) from Gaza, the network citing security - the allegation in that article was that he was “really” removed for claiming in a tweet that the US State Dept. blamed Hamas for civilian casualties for igoring a cease-fire. That has nothing to do with supporting Palestinains or opposing Israel. The second was a reporter allegedly removed from Israel and sent to cover Russia, again alleging security threats - after her tweet that Israelis she was reporting on (cheering the bombardment) were threatening her and calling them “scum”. Again, this has nothing to do with supporting Palestinians or Israelis. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/612 "2014-07-23T20:52:38Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > So why are there anti-israel demonstrations in Egypt There are KKK demonstrations in the US. Does that mean that the US is officially a white-supremacist nation? ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/613 "2014-07-23T20:54:41Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > People keep conflating Hamas with all Palestinians and justify treating all Palestinians like shit because of what Hamas does. Well, Palestinians are the ones supporting Hamas. Stop supporting Hamas, Hamas starts losing influence in the West Bank and Gaza. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/614 "2014-07-23T21:01:50Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > What’s clear is that he is thrashing about trying to draw equivalence between Hamas and Israel. Not, I should say, with much success, but considering the facts on the ground that is not surprising. > > Regards, > Shodan I don’t see how pointing out the treatment of journalists that are critics of Israel is drawing an equivalence between Israel and Hamas. You keep trying to twist criticsm of israel into support for hamas. Its not. I’ve said at least 3 or 4 times that I don’t have a huge problem with israel retaliating against hamas, I’ve pointed out Israel’s relatively low civilian casualty ratio, I’ve condemned the rocket attacks as both immoral and ineffective, I’ve condemned Hamas for suspending elctions as soon as they were elected into power. But despite all this, when I criticize the settlements in the settlements in the west bank and a law that even some of the justices on the Israeli supreme court consider not only racist but apartheid, this criticism means I support Hamas in some way. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/615 "2014-07-23T21:06:39Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > It was pretty clear Damuri wasn’t asking for cites about Hamas cracking down on dissidents. Shodan’s quicky response is idiotic in context. Not that the exchange he jumped in on was particularly useful. I added the link without comment. It was a link that expanded on a set of links already in existence. It is only relevant in the context that there might be a chilling effect in US journalism against people who say bad things about Israel so ourn perception of the conflict may be colored by journalists with career preserving instincts. > [@Malthus](#): > > My understanding was that Damuri was asking about whether any journalists have been “punished” by US networks for supporting Israel, as he alleges they have been “punished” for supporting the Palestinians. > > The problem with this thesis is that none of the cites demonstrate journalists being “punished” for supporting Palestinians. > > At most, one was removed (temporarily) from Gaza, the network citing security - the allegation in that article was that he was “really” removed for claiming in a tweet that the US State Dept. blamed Hamas for civilian casualties for igoring a cease-fire. That has nothing to do with supporting Palestinains or opposing Israel. > > The second was a reporter allegedly removed from Israel and sent to cover Russia, again alleging security threats - after her tweet that Israelis she was reporting on (cheering the bombardment) were threatening her and calling them “scum”. Again, this has nothing to do with supporting Palestinians or Israelis. I agree the “punishment” (and its cause) is alleged. I wish someone would come up with some equally convincing exmaples of journalists with allegation of “punishment” from the other side. it seems to me that this might cause a chilling effect in our free press. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/616 "2014-07-23T21:55:00Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I added the link without comment. It was a link that expanded on a set of links already in existence. It is only relevant in the context that there might be a chilling effect in US journalism against people who say bad things about Israel so ourn perception of the conflict may be colored by journalists with career preserving instincts. > > I agree the “punishment” (and its cause) is alleged. I wish someone would come up with some equally convincing exmaples of journalists with allegation of “punishment” from the other side. it seems to me that this might cause a chilling effect in our free press. You are missing my point - “punishment” for supporting Palestinians isn’t even “alleged” in either story. It is not “supporting Palestinians” to tweet that the State Depaertment blames Hamas for civilian deaths, nor is it “supporting Palestinians” to tweet that Israeli civilians threatening a journalist are “scum”. The notion that these are “convincing” examples of a “chilling effect” on a free press for anyone “supporting Palestinians” is simply nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/617 "2014-07-23T22:13:31Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Do these countries deny residency or citizenship to a spouse of a citizen based on their Israeli nationality? Damuri, most states in the region have all sorts of openly anti-Semitic laws. For example, until they entered a treaty with Israel, Jordan had laws making it illegal to sell property to Jews, not Israelis, Jews. The PA still has such laws in effect making it a crime punishable by death to sell property to a Jew. Respectfully doesn’t your argument seem a little silly? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/618 "2014-07-23T22:22:06Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Damuri, most states in the region have all sorts of openly anti-Semitic laws. > > For example, until they entered a treaty with Israel, Jordan had laws making it illegal to sell property to Jews, not Israelis, Jews. > > The PA still has such laws in effect making it a crime punishable by death to sell property to a Jew. > > Respectfully doesn’t your argument seem a little silly? Seriously, how out of touch do you have to be to think Israel is particularly racist compared to it’s neighbors? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/619 "2014-07-24T00:56:37Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Seriously, how out of touch do you have to be to think Israel is particularly racist compared to it’s neighbors? I’m still chuckling at the thought that expecting someone to know about the Camp David Accords is expecting them to be an expert on the area. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/620 "2014-07-24T01:03:59Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Well, Palestinians are the ones supporting Hamas. Stop supporting Hamas, Hamas starts losing influence in the West Bank and Gaza. And if there was any halfway competent, non-corrupt alternative to Hamas available, maybe the Palestinians would support it. But it doesn’t seem like that’s the choice they’re given. It’s the Good Ol’ Boys Baksheesh Club or Hamas. Besides much like the Mob, the Triads, the Cartel or Golden fucking Dawn, Hamas knows how to get itself loved by the little people as much as they get feared - they organize food drives, set up free clinics and schools, help police the community and so on. They’re not \*only \*about shooting piddly firecrackers into Israel. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856.md?page=32)