# airstrikes on Gaza **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 11, 2014, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856 "2014-07-11T14:55:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2014, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/701 "2014-07-26T00:27:18Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > . . . Its worked out horribly and yet they still do not surrender, they only seem to get more pissed off. What makes you think that you can pound them into submission this time around? Disarming them will suffice. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2014, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/702 "2014-07-26T02:16:47Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You’re kidding right? You want a cite for the notion that most of Israel’s Jews in 1948 are immigrants from abroad? No. I want the cite that most of the Arabs in that area were NOT immigrants from abroad. Have one? ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2014, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/703 "2014-07-26T20:38:00Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The point I am trying to make is that this undermines their claim to the land when they are recent immigrants. When recent immigrants come to a land and call it their own, we sometimes call it colonialism or imperialism … Or “Lebensraum”. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2014, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/704 "2014-07-26T23:37:35Z")
Look at [Gaza is not just about them, it's about us, too – Jon Snow – Channel 4 News](http://blogs.channel4.com/snowblog/bring-israelis-palestinians/24316) A perfect example of “agenda journalism”. Not one mention of Hamas. It’s like it doesn’t exist. Those horrible Israelis are just torturing Palestinians for no reason whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/705 "2014-07-27T00:05:08Z")
What’s the current exchange rate of Palestinian lives to Israeli ones? The Hamas to IDF one seems reasonable, but what of the non-combatants? > **[Children paying a terrible price in Gaza](https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/world/gaza-counter/)** > > Palestinian civilians continue to make up the largest share of casualties in the Gaza conflict. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/706 "2014-07-27T02:19:08Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > What’s the current exchange rate of Palestinian lives to Israeli ones? The Hamas to IDF one seems reasonable, but what of the non-combatants? > > [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/world/gaza-counter/](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/world/gaza-counter/) Remind me. What was the exchange rate of Serbian lives to American ones? And that’s without Serbia ever attacking the US. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/707 "2014-07-27T02:36:55Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > What’s the current exchange rate of Palestinian lives to Israeli ones? The Hamas to IDF one seems reasonable, but what of the non-combatants? . . . Why has Hamas rejected a cease fire? This can stop any time they want. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/708 "2014-07-27T05:50:15Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Which would be expanded to include the West Bank up to the Green Line (not up to the Wall). > > And then the Gaza Strip can go to Egypt. > > Agreed? Well, depends on what they lost in the '67 War. War re-draws boundaries. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/709 "2014-07-27T06:12:08Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Which would be expanded to include the West Bank up to the Green Line (not up to the Wall). > > And then the Gaza Strip can go to Egypt. > > Agreed? Huh? I thought you followed the events in the Middle East. Egypt was offered the Gaza Strip during the Camp David Accords and they said “absolutely not, please stop acting like we’re stupid”. They treated the Palestinians like shit when it was a part of Egypt, believed the place to be a pisshole and made it clear they had no desire to have it. As for the idea of Jordan gaining the West Bank, ok, that’s not quite as stupid, but it’s still really stupid and the only people who bandy it about are right-wing Zionists. Jordan gave up any claim to the area decades ago and the Hashemite rulers of Jordan have utterly no desire to dramatically increase the Palestinian population of their country. Present day Jordan is about 70% Palestinian and they have no desire to increase it, particularly since Fatah tried to kick out King Hussein the last time they had the chance. Besides, as someone with your knowledge of the region should be aware, the UN has declared that Israel is entitled to part of the West Bank in UN resolution 242. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/710 "2014-07-27T12:06:12Z")
Why not give Gaza back to Turkey? [turkeys and runs] ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/711 "2014-07-27T13:30:14Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Look at [Gaza is not just about them, it's about us, too – Jon Snow – Channel 4 News](http://blogs.channel4.com/snowblog/bring-israelis-palestinians/24316) > > A perfect example of “agenda journalism”. Not one mention of Hamas. It’s like it doesn’t exist. Those horrible Israelis are just torturing Palestinians for no reason whatsoever. The video linked at the very start of the article, which is a segment from Channel 4 News with the writer of the blog piece presenting, is called “Gaza: Israel warned Hamas before attack” and includes an Israeli official talking about the rockets and shells landing in Israel from Gaza. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/712 "2014-07-27T18:17:43Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Why not give Gaza back to Turkey? [turkeys and runs] Turkey never controlled Gaza. You might as well say, “Give Boston back to the Canadians.” ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/713 "2014-07-27T19:11:43Z")
> **[Report: Hamas Used Child Labor to Build Terror Tunnels; Hundreds Killed](https://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2014/07/27/report-hamas-used-child-labor-to-build-tunnels-hundreds-died/)** > > Hamas killed hundreds of children in the construction of its extensive tunnel network, built partly to carry out attacks on children across the Gaza | Pelham wrote that despite the economic success of the tunnels underneath the Egyptian border, which enriched Hamas through a thriving black market as well as arming it with new weapons, there were a few drawbacks. One of these was a “cavalier approach to child labor and tunnel fatalities,” he noted. “During a police patrol that the author was permitted to accompany in December 2011, nothing was done to impede the use of children in the tunnels, where, much as in Victorian coal mines, they are prized for their nimble bodies. At least 160 children have been killed in the tunnels, according to Hamas officials” (emphasis added). Though some children likely worked voluntarily, the fact that there were public complaints about child deaths, to which Hamas felt compelled to respond at least superficially, is evidence of some amount of coercion. The number of deaths since 2012 has yet to be reported, but almost certainly exceeds the number Pelham reported. To sum up: Hamas is not only using child labor, but likely child slavery, in building its terror tunnel network. While the world worries obsessively over the child casualties of Israeli attacks on Hamas targets in Gaza, it has ignored Hamas’s deliberate killing of hundreds of Palestinian children, over the objections of the local populace. So - does anyone expect the UN to convene to condemn Hamas for the deaths of these children? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/714 "2014-07-27T20:31:25Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Turkey never controlled Gaza. > " The Ottomans did, though, along with everything else in these parts. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/715 "2014-07-27T21:39:08Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > The Ottomans did, though, along with everything else in these parts. Yes, but the Ottomans were hardly just Turks. In fact, the term “Turk” was considered an insult and most Ottomans didn’t consider themselves Turks and weren’t by any reasonable definition “Turks”. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/716 "2014-07-27T22:26:30Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Yes, but the Ottomans were hardly just Turks. In fact, the term “Turk” was considered an insult and most Ottomans didn’t consider themselves Turks and weren’t by any reasonable definition “Turks”. Except that as far as the people who lived under their rule were concerned, they were Turks. That’s what the Jews call them, that’s what the Arabs call them, and that’s what the peoples of the Balkans call them before they spit on the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/717 "2014-07-27T22:42:17Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Turkey never controlled Gaza. The Ottoman rump, or is it the rump on the ottoman, lost Levant (including Gaza) shortly prior to being succeeded by Turkey, with Constantinople being renamed Istanbul. “Turkeys and runs” works better than “chesterfields and runs”, so history will have to be amended once the terrorists stop lobbing rockets Israel. The Ottoman rump, or is it the rump on the ottoman, lost Levant (including Gaza) shortly prior to being succeeded by the state now known as Turkey. Of course the Ottoman Empire (also known as the Turkish Empire) grew out of Antolia (also known as Asian Turkey, where one finds the capital of present day Turkey), as the Turks expanded their territory to eventually include, et alia, that blighted shoreline now known as Gaza. Perhaps we should rephrase it at “Give Gaza back to the Turks . . . . Turks and runs.” The problem, however isn’t one of semantics; it is one of terrorists not wiling to recognize that Israel is here to stay, regardless of how it got there, or how the British got there, or how the Turks got there, etc. The residents of Gaza would do better to stop tolerating terrorists and move forward on that basis rather than continue getting people killed. Want to develop Gaza? Stop the blockade. Want to stop the blockade? Stop importing arms and munitions. It’s really quite simple – as long as Israel is attacked, it will defend itself, to the great and tragic loss of people who’s communities are infested with terrorists who tunnel under their streets, who hide munitions in their schools, and who fire missiles from beside their homes. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/718 "2014-07-27T22:52:33Z")
There just has to be a special circle of Hell reserved for Hamas. Their policy is plain: keep firing rockets at Israel, place children in harms way (close to rocket launch sites, for instance) and pray to their god that as many children as possible die or are horribly maimed when Israel defends itself. It’s win-win for Hamas, until the rest of the world call them out on their disgusting actions. But the rest of the world, of course, is far too busy blaming Israel. And so the cycle continues. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/719 "2014-07-27T22:59:37Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Disarming them will suffice. Is that even possible? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/720 "2014-07-27T23:04:36Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Is that even possible? The Israelis were able to disarm and disband the Irgun and Lehi. The Jordanians disarmed the PLO. If there is a moderate faction within the Palestinian Territories more popular than Hamas, shouldn’t they be able to? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856.md?page=37)