# airstrikes on Gaza **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 11, 2014, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856 "2014-07-11T14:55:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 40
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/781 "2014-07-28T22:53:23Z")
Anyway, I think the world has reached another breaking point. There are too many points of fracture for this to stop now ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/782 "2014-07-28T22:53:28Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Violence makes the headlines. Every 2 years max some violence involving Israel happens. You can’t say that some other issue, that has had no violence in decades is equivalent and proves Israel is getting hated on. It’s just silly. How many threads are there condemning Turkey for invading Northern Iraq a few years ago to go after members of the PKK? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/783 "2014-07-28T22:54:36Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Anyway, I think the world has reached another breaking point. There are too many points of fracture for this to stop now ☹ People said this thirty years ago. They’ll say it thirty years from now as well. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/784 "2014-07-28T23:00:10Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > “Whataboutery” is a sure sign of an argument not really working out too well. > > I wonder what the butcher’s bill is up to today? > > [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/world/gaza-counter/](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/world/gaza-counter/) > > This clearly demonstrates the wanton discriminate terror of the missiles from Gaza, and also the surgical precision of the response from the IDF. [http://www.israellycool.com/2014/07/26/latest-analysis-of-gazan-casualties-in-operation-protective-edge-as-of-july-25th/](http://www.israellycool.com/2014/07/26/latest-analysis-of-gazan-casualties-in-operation-protective-edge-as-of-july-25th/) ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/785 "2014-07-28T23:18:12Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > [http://www.israellycool.com/2014/07/26/latest-analysis-of-gazan-casualties-in-operation-protective-edge-as-of-july-25th/](http://www.israellycool.com/2014/07/26/latest-analysis-of-gazan-casualties-in-operation-protective-edge-as-of-july-25th/) What do you think this link from the globally respected [israellycool.com](http://israellycool.com) says? It’s OK to kill Gazan male teenagers, because, y’know, they are like _that_ ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/786 "2014-07-28T23:35:12Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > What do you think this link from the globally respected [israellycool.com](http://israellycool.com) says? It’s OK to kill Gazan male teenagers, because, y’know, they are like _that_ The analysis is from the “israelycool”. The stats come from UN and Hamas. The stats clearly show that the Israeli army is definitely NOT killing random civilians. In fact, considering the population density and Hamas pushing of human shields in front of themselves, it is amazing that this level of precision of targeting of the militants is achieved. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/787 "2014-07-28T23:38:56Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > People said this thirty years ago. They’ll say it thirty years from now as well. And a hundred years ago an Archduke got shot. There’s instability all over the place, resource contention, power blocs butting heads etc. Not good. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/788 "2014-07-29T00:07:59Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > How many threads are there condemning Turkey for invading Northern Iraq a few years ago to go after members of the PKK? Have you not noticed that practically no one here is actually condemning Israel? Did you not see I linked a thread a few posts ago with a survey showing that the vast majority of posters lean either neutral or pro-Israel? Just because it’s a topic of conversation, for some bizarre reason you consider it condemnation of Israel. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/789 "2014-07-29T00:31:42Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The analysis is from the “israelycool”. The stats come from UN and Hamas. The stats clearly show that the Israeli army is definitely NOT killing random civilians. In fact, considering the population density and Hamas pushing of human shields in front of themselves, it is amazing that this level of precision of targeting of the militants is achieved. Its not really a convincing analysis of the numbers, imho. “Military age men” are going to be the people still out and about during shelling. They’ll be the main ones still going to their job, getting supplies, or being part of the clean up/rescue after earlier attacks. It is very much rushing to your intended conclusion, istm. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/790 "2014-07-29T03:39:40Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > People said this thirty years ago. They’ll say it thirty years from now as well. You’re not giving us a lot of hope. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/791 "2014-07-29T06:20:19Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > considering the population density and Hamas pushing of human shields in front of themselves, it is amazing that this level of precision of targeting of the militants is achieved. You’re quoting a blog called Israellycool. It shows a series of images of graphs, but no raw data for the actual numbers used, or even output data other than images. It claims to have found 33 duplicated names in the list from 5 days ago, and seizes on that 5% as proof that the numbers are being inflated. Then, on the basis of highly selective graphs (all of which give percentages, no actual numbers) they claim that the comparatively low level of child deaths (although it only shows percentages of males killed by age range, strangely) they claim that as their percentage of 16.8% is lower than it should be for the relative proportion of children to adults in the area, that Israel is using precision. As conformation bias goes, that is impressively stupid. Could I suggest to you that: 1. 210 dead children is not evidence of precision (taking the last analysis from the WP and reducing it by more than the 5% Israellycool argue the numbers have been inflated by 2. Considering mankind’s tendency to protect their children first, I would have a stronger claim that the Palestinians should be congratulated for doing everything they can to protect their children from pervasive, widespread airstrikes in a densely packed area. 3. Any cite that doesn’t give actual numbers but relies on pictures is not to be trusted. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/792 "2014-07-29T06:26:45Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Have you not noticed that practically no one here is actually condemning Israel? For the record, I would like to state that I am condemning Israel for a grossly disproportionate response to a pathetically weak threat that has seen hundreds of innocent people killed. I also condemn them (and their supporters) for trying to justify this on the grounds that Hamas are evil bastards, as if two wrongs have ever made a right, or as if democratic nations should not be held to higher moral standards than terrorists. I also condemn them for engaging in ridiculously short sighted tactics that will encourage huge levels of extremism and hatred from those in Gaza, and lord only knows how this will play out over the next 20 years. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/793 "2014-07-29T11:15:20Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Anyway, I think the world has reached another breaking point. There are too many points of fracture for this to stop now ☹ It’s never really stopped before, though. It has always only just paused, and most likely will pause again soon. Hamas has been pretty clear that they will accept nothing less than the end of the “siege” of Gaza. Of course, Israel won’t concede to that, but they _don’t have to_ for Hamas to be satisfied enough to declare a face-saving victory/ceasefire once \*Egypt \*somewhat relaxes _their_ side of the blockade. ISTM that this has been the game plan all along. Not much else makes sense, to me, at least. The line to tell me why I’m wrong to expect anything to make “sense” starts here —\> ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/794 "2014-07-29T13:15:47Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > What do you think drives this singular obsession with Israel? I think it is a bunch of different factors. First, and most significantly, the issue of the status of Jerusalem (and Israel generally) is seen as an affront by many predominantly Muslim nations; and there are many of them. They vote as one on Israeli issues. Second, again historically, there is Europe’s complicated position on colonialism. Europeans tend to see Israel through the lens of their own colonial experience - in fact, they see it (and it is seen by many in the 3rd world) as a colonial implantation of Europeans who happen to be Jewish. This of course ignores the fact that half the Jewish population of Israel is middle eastern Jews, which tends to be forgotten; also, that Israelis have no country to go back to. Colonialism = bad, therefore Israel = bad. Third, it is a conflict that keeps on happening. Every few years there is another attack of some sort, one way or the other. Fourth, for whatever reasons Israel bunches far above its weight in several areas - most places that suffer a lot of wars are 3rd world shitholes, that can be conveniently ignored, like the Congo. Bad stuff happens there, it doesn’t make the news. Fifth, there are Jews in many places outside of Israel, and every once in a while they get targeted. For example, in Europe recently anti-Israeli protests turned into anti-Jewish ones, with lots of window smashing. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/795 "2014-07-29T15:06:46Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > It’s never really stopped before, though. It has always only just paused, and most likely will pause again soon. Hamas has been pretty clear that they will accept nothing less than the end of the “siege” of Gaza. Of course, Israel won’t concede to that, but they _don’t have to_ for Hamas to be satisfied enough to declare a face-saving victory/ceasefire once \*Egypt \*somewhat relaxes _their_ side of the blockade. ISTM that this has been the game plan all along. Not much else makes sense, to me, at least. > > The line to tell me why I’m wrong to expect anything to make “sense” starts here —\> Didn’t Egypt “relax” their blockade after the election of a muslim brotherhood president? Did the overthrow of the muslim brotherhood tighten up the blockade from the Egypt side again? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/796 "2014-07-29T15:09:39Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Didn’t Egypt “relax” their blockade after the election of a muslim brotherhood president? > > Did the overthrow of the muslim brotherhood tighten up the blockade from the Egypt side again? Well, yes. Hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood and Egyptian military don’t want them freely trading supplies or personnel. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/797 "2014-07-29T15:12:07Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > For the record, I would like to state that I am condemning Israel for a grossly disproportionate response to a pathetically weak threat that has seen hundreds of innocent people killed. > > I also condemn them (and their supporters) for trying to justify this on the grounds that Hamas are evil bastards, as if two wrongs have ever made a right, or as if democratic nations should not be held to higher moral standards than terrorists. > > I also condemn them for engaging in ridiculously short sighted tactics that will encourage huge levels of extremism and hatred from those in Gaza, and lord only knows how this will play out over the next 20 years. Israel has a right to defend itself. The vengeance weapon launches will be stopped. I suggest that the Palestinians chose to stop the rocket launches before Israel stops the rocket launchers. Hamas/Palestinians wanted a fight and now they’ve got one. Again. The Palestinian complaint that Israel’s self-defense efforts are better/more effective than the Palestinian’s terrorist vengeance weapons is absurd. Stop launching rockets into Israel. It really is that simple. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/798 "2014-07-29T15:37:39Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Israel has a right to defend itself. . And is there a limit to the actions you can take in the name of self defence? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/799 "2014-07-29T15:38:54Z")
Oh, and it looks like another hundred deaths in Gaza today. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/800 "2014-07-29T15:49:58Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > And is there a limit to the actions you can take in the name of self defence? The bottom line is that you WILL stop throwing rocks at me. You may come to your senses, get tired, bored, run out of rocks, your mom may stop you, the police may stop you, or I will stop you. There are many possible options. But you will stop throwing rocks at me or become unable to throw rocks at me. (All characters appearing in this post are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856.md?page=39) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856.md?page=41)