# airstrikes on Gaza **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 11, 2014, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856 "2014-07-11T14:55:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 61
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/1201 "2014-08-07T04:32:19Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Is your position that Jews were not persecuted or faced discrimination in the Medieval Islamic world? No of course not. > [@](#): > > If they were treated as badly or worse than blacks in the Jim Crow South would you accept the idea that they were persecuted or would that not be good enough for you? I already accept the idea that they were persecuted. I don’t yet accept the idea that they were historically persecuted more in the middle east than they were in other parts of the world. I don’t yet accept the tide that they were historically persecuted more than other non-muslims. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/1202 "2014-08-07T04:40:45Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > No of course not. > > I already accept the idea that they were persecuted. I don’t yet accept the idea that they were historically persecuted more in the middle east than they were in other parts of the world. I don’t yet accept the tide that they were historically persecuted more than other non-muslims. Ok, this is ridiculous goal post shifting. You began by trying to claim that anti-Semitism was a result of Zionism and now you’re conceding that they were persecuted long before political Zionism arose. You also keep demanding people prove that Jews were treated worse in the Islamic World than Europe when no one has actually claimed this. Let me ask you this. Why hasn’t it occurred to you that the reason Zionism became so popular among Middle Eastern Jews was because they were treated so badly by the Muslims? Doesn’t that answer your question as to which movement caused which? ---
**Author:** ![mil0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac8455/32.png) [@mil0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mil0)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/1203 "2014-08-07T04:54:24Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I don’t know. Maybe because that’s the only place there was one before? Or maybe because that’s the only place there was an unbroken Jewish presence for 3800 years? Nonsense, at this very moment modern Jewish Irredentists are reestablishing a Khazar kingdom in eastern Ukraine. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/1204 "2014-08-07T13:28:39Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Do you think it’s extremely anti-Semitic to claim that Jews are ritually unclean . . . ISTM that **Jews** think that Jews are ritually unclean. The guilt, y’know? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/1205 "2014-08-07T13:36:36Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I don’t know. Maybe because that’s the only place there was one before? Or maybe because that’s the only place there was an unbroken Jewish presence for 3800 years? There has also been an unbroken Palestinian presence there for at least that long. The Palestinians being everybody-else-in-Palestine. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/1206 "2014-08-07T13:38:54Z")
[Negotiations to extend the ceasefire are going on in Cairo.](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28687379) Fingers crossed . . . or crescented . . . or whatever it is Jews do with their fingers. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/1207 "2014-08-07T17:19:58Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Ok, this is ridiculous goal post shifting. You began by trying to claim that anti-Semitism was a result of Zionism and now you’re conceding that they were persecuted long before political Zionism arose. > > You also keep demanding people prove that Jews were treated worse in the Islamic World than Europe when no one has actually claimed this. > > Let me ask you this. > > Why hasn’t it occurred to you that the reason Zionism became so popular among Middle Eastern Jews was because they were treated so badly by the Muslims? > > Doesn’t that answer your question as to which movement caused which? Of course it does. My understanding is that zionism came bfore the viruluent anti-semitism we see today rather than the toerh way around ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/1208 "2014-08-07T19:44:34Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Negotiations to extend the ceasefire are going on in Cairo.](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28687379) Fingers crossed . . . or crescented . . . or whatever it is Jews do with their fingers. The Vulcan salute from Star Trek… ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/1209 "2014-08-07T19:46:12Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Of course it does. My understanding is that zionism came bfore the viruluent anti-semitism we see today rather than the toerh way around Would you consider people who believe Jews to be ritually unclean and who think that any Muslim who comes into contact with Jews must immediately wash themselves to be “virulently anti-Semitic”? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/1210 "2014-08-07T19:59:19Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Because, as I have shown, with cites, IDF-reported figures turn out to be correct Cites such as the IDF: > [@Terr](#): > > Latest figures from the IDF (from [JPost twitter feed](https://twitter.com/Jerusalem_Post/lists/jpost-reporters)): out of 1768 Palestinian fatalities, 750-1000 are militants. Or [Breitbart.com](http://Breitbart.com): > [@Terr](#): > > [http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/07/31/Israel-Shaming-Persists-Even-as-UN-Admits-Hamas-Uses-UN-Areas-for-Rocket-Launches](http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/07/31/Israel-Shaming-Persists-Even-as-UN-Admits-Hamas-Uses-UN-Areas-for-Rocket-Launches) Or no cite at all: > [@Terr](#): > > Except that never happened. For example, the latest incident: Israel targeted (and killed) two terrorists on a motorbike. At the moment they were hit they happened to be passing a UNRWA school, so some people in the school were killed as well. Anyone for confirmation bias? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/1211 "2014-08-07T20:11:51Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Cites such as the IDF: I gave you a Palestinian source that confirmed IDF figures a year after 2009 (when Palestinians claimed very low figures of killed militants, and IDF reported 700). You ignored it. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/1212 "2014-08-07T20:43:33Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > By the standards you just foolishly set, . . . Referring to an idea as foolish is inflammatory, but scrapes by the rules of the forum. This construction applies “foolishly” to the actions of the poster, coming a lot closer to a personal attack. Just back off on this sort of construction. It is not necessary and does nothing to promote discussion. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/1213 "2014-08-07T20:48:58Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Referring to an idea as foolish is inflammatory, but scrapes by the rules of the forum. This construction applies “foolishly” to the actions of the poster, coming a lot closer to a personal attack. > > Just back off on this sort of construction. It is not necessary and does nothing to promote discussion. > > [/Moderating] That wasn’t me. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/1214 "2014-08-07T22:49:37Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > You may be dismayed to hear that the IRA launched quite a few such attacks (killing far more people than Hamas managed), in a multi decade campaign, and were also linked to the dominant political party in Ireland at the time. As such, should Britain have gone the airstrike route? Sinn Féin were not anywhere close to being the dominant political party in Ireland at the time. Are you referring to another party? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/1215 "2014-08-07T23:10:09Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Sinn Féin were not anywhere close to being the dominant political party in Ireland at the time. Are you referring to another party? I think he has Northern Ireland and Ireland confuses. Sort of like thinking New Mexico is a part of Mexico. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/1216 "2014-08-07T23:44:08Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > That wasn’t me. My apologies. I grabbed the quote from a quoting post and had not tracked it far enough back to pick up the actual author. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/1217 "2014-08-07T23:59:05Z")
So, thought I’d link to [this](http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2014/08/07/nr-cupp-hamas-goal-overlooked-by-media.cnn.html) video report on CNN where they kind of discuss where the media goes wrong in reporting about Hamas. It’s only a couple of minutes long and it doesn’t go into a lot of detail, but it does a pretty good job of explaining the sort of false equivalency aspect that the media sets up when they report about Hamas vis-a-vis Israel and kind of the frustration you see from the supposed ‘pro-Israeli’ people in threads like this. If you don’t want to watch it and want the Cliff’s Notes version it’s that there is no equivalency…Hamas stated (and quite clear and candid) goals are the complete destruction of Israel and of pretty much all the Jews from the entirety of Palestine (if not from the entire ME). Since the media doesn’t generally give that little detail, to folks who are pretty much ignorant of the history (as many in this thread seemingly are) and ignorant of that flatly stated goal, it sets up that equivalency and a legitimacy Hamas. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/1218 "2014-08-08T00:46:28Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I think he has Northern Ireland and Ireland confuses. > > Sort of like thinking New Mexico is a part of Mexico. Even if he is, he’d still be incorrect. SF aren’t the biggest party in NI now and had much less support during the Troubles. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/1219 "2014-08-08T00:48:45Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > My apologies. > I grabbed the quote from a quoting post and had not tracked it far enough back to pick up the actual author. I shouldn’t have said it and will refrain from doing so in the rest of the thread. Apologies to Damuri. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2014, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856/1220 "2014-08-08T00:50:17Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Even if he is, he’d still be incorrect. SF aren’t the biggest party in NI now and had much less support during the Troubles. I don’t think they were even the biggest nationalist party. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856.md?page=60) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/airstrikes-on-gaza/692856.md?page=62)