# Al-Awlaki Killed **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 30, 2011, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158 "2011-09-30T14:51:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/1 "2011-09-30T14:51:48Z")
[http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/01/world/middleeast/anwar-al-awlaki-is-killed-in-yemen.html?\_r=1&hp](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/01/world/middleeast/anwar-al-awlaki-is-killed-in-yemen.html?_r=1&hp) Good riddance to the traitor scum! :mad: We’ve even got the propagandist traitor with him too! ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/2 "2011-09-30T14:58:53Z")
Not a fan of the First Amendment, I see. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/3 "2011-09-30T15:01:14Z")
This has nothing to do with the first amendment. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/4 "2011-09-30T15:02:21Z")
Yes it does, as well as the Fifth Amendment. Forgot to mention that. Alwaki’s “crime” was making Youtube videos. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/5 "2011-09-30T15:03:39Z")
“_Traitor scum_” he growled with a steely glint in his eye. **Qin** shrugged his jacket on and strode down the darkening alley into rain soaked streets. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/6 "2011-09-30T15:08:44Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Alwaki’s “crime” was making Youtube videos. I would think there would be some further distinction, otherwise the guys that slingshotted the squirrel off the porch are in for a Predator drone attack? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/7 "2011-09-30T15:14:47Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Yes it does Repeating an error does not make it factual. Giving aid and comfort to an enemy (to say nothing of actually serving in a leadership capacity or as a communications officer) is no “First Amendment” issue, and it cheapens the actual importance of freedom of speech when you use it in some sort of deceptive, tawdry equivocation. Freedom of speech is important, and does not cover committing treason. This is basic. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/8 "2011-09-30T15:15:50Z")
Awlaki’s videos featured violent anti-American rhetoric. Of course, he didn’t implore his audience to employ Second Amendment remedies, so he’s a traitor that needed to die. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/9 "2011-09-30T15:20:37Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Repeating an error does not make it factual. Giving aid and comfort to an enemy (to say nothing of actually serving in a leadership capacity or as a communications officer) is no “First Amendment” issue, and it cheapens the actual importance of freedom of speech when you use it in some sort of deceptive, tawdry equivocation. Freedom of speech is important, and does not cover committing treason. This is basic. I don’t usually go for extra-judicial executions, but I’m going to agree with this. They were both pretty clearly committing acts of treason, and were proud of it. Samir Khan had put in writing that he was “proud to be a traitor to America.” And I although I will not go “yeee hah!” or do a happy dance, I don’t condemn the US Govt for doing this. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/10 "2011-09-30T15:22:35Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Repeating an error does not make it factual. Giving aid and comfort to an enemy (to say nothing of actually serving in a leadership capacity or as a communications officer) is no “First Amendment” issue, and it cheapens the actual importance of freedom of speech when you use in some sort of deceptive, tawdry equivocation. Freedom of speech is important, and does not cover committing treason. This is basic. [Brandenburg v. Ohio](http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0395_0444_ZO.html). Only speech that incites imminent lawless action may be proscribed. So a Klan member can threaten violence against politicians, just as an American living in Yemen can advocate violence against America, just as virtually the entire Tea Party can slyly advocate violence against the government. It’s all speech. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/11 "2011-09-30T15:23:40Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I don’t usually go for extra-judicial executions, but I’m going to agree with this. They were both pretty clearly committing acts of treason, and were proud of it. Samir Khan had put in writing that he was “proud to be a traitor to America.” > > And I although I will not go “yeee hah!” or do a happy dance, I don’t condemn the US Govt for doing this. Speech is treasonous now? Better load up the Predator drones and take out Rick Perry, he advocated secession! ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/12 "2011-09-30T15:28:21Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > “_Traitor scum_” he growled with a steely glint in his eye. **Qin** shrugged his jacket on and strode down the darkening alley into rain soaked streets. :rolleyes: “You forgot your rubbers!” called a voice from behind. _Jeez, Mom, not in front of everyone…_ ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/13 "2011-09-30T15:30:27Z")
**MOIDALIZE** , at various points the guy was in communication with two of the September 11th hijackers, the Fort Hood shooter, the failed Times Square bomber and the underwear bomber. That’s not “just speech,” it’s involvement with a terrorist organization. There are real concerns about the drone attacks and **Qin Shi Huangdi** ’s crowing is as immature and empty as ever, but you’re making a stupid argument here. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/14 "2011-09-30T15:32:41Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > **MOIDALIZE** , at various points the guy was in communication with two of the September 11th hijackers, the Fort Hood shooter, the failed Times Square bomber and the underwear bomber. That’s not “just speech,” it’s involvement with a terrorist organization. There are real concerns about the drone attacks and **Qin Shi Huangdi** ’s crowing is as immature and empty as ever, but you’re making a stupid argument here. What evidence is there, aside from the unchallenged claims of the government, that Awlaki had an operational role in Al Qaeda? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/15 "2011-09-30T15:35:42Z")
I thought a trial was necessary too determine if he was guilty of treason. Killing his kind of subverts the judicial system . It is wrong. But I am glad QIN has another death to celebrate. He is such a sweet young kid. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/16 "2011-09-30T15:38:00Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > What evidence is there, aside from the unchallenged claims of the government, that Alwaki had an operational role in Al Qaeda? [For your perusal.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki#Later_life.2C_and_alleged_ties_to_terrorism) Meanwhile I will take this question as an acknowledgement that you were wrong when you said all he did was make YouTube videos because that was absolutely not all he was accused of doing. Does communicating with a half a dozen terrorists over a long period of time still count as “just speech” in your opinion? Because one meeting could be a coincidence and a couple of correspondences could even be overlooked, but after a while it starts to look like maybe the guy was part of a terrorist organization and was fomenting and planning attacks. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/17 "2011-09-30T15:38:15Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Not a fan of the First Amendment, I see. I don’t know about the OP, but I certainly am not. In the absence of its guarantee we have governments suppressing ideas, and with it we have individuals whipping up mobs with sophistic propaganda. I find neither acceptable, but I consider the rogue the worse. As for Al-Assclown, his actions and statements fairly clearly indicated his loyalties. I don’t think it makes much sense to extend constitutional protections to those who, by any reasonable standard, live only to abuse them. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/18 "2011-09-30T15:44:22Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > [For your perusal.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki#Later_life.2C_and_alleged_ties_to_terrorism) Meanwhile I will take this question as an acknowledgement that you were wrong when you said all he did was make YouTube videos because that was absolutely not all he was accused of doing. Does communicating with a half a dozen terrorists over a long period of time still count as “just speech” in your opinion? Because one meeting could be a coincidence and a couple of correspondences could even be overlooked, but after a while it starts to look like maybe the guy was part of a terrorist organization and was fomenting and planning attacks. I asked YOU to find something, not give me a reading assignment. At any rate, nothing in that section suggests anything greater than suspicion on the part of the government of his involvement. Suspicion isn’t proof. Gregory D. Johnsen, Yemen expert: > [@](#): > > He is far from the terrorist kingpin that the West has made him out to be. In fact, he isn’t even the head of his own organization, Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula. That would be Nasir al-Wuhayshi, who was Osama bin Laden’s personal secretary for four years in Afghanistan. > > Nor is Mr. Awlaki the deputy commander, a position held by Said Ali al-Shihri, a former detainee at Guantánamo Bay who was repatriated to Saudi Arabia in 2007 and put in a “terrorist rehabilitation” program. (The treatment, clearly, did not take.) > > Mr. Awlaki isn’t the group’s top religious scholar (Adil al-Abab), its chief of military operations (Qassim al-Raymi), its bomb maker (Ibrahim Hassan Asiri) or even its leading ideologue (Ibrahim Suleiman al-Rubaysh). > > Rather, he is a midlevel religious functionary who happens to have American citizenship and speak English. This makes him a propaganda threat, but not one whose elimination would do anything to limit the reach of the Qaeda branch. [http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/20/opinion/20johnsen.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/20/opinion/20johnsen.html) ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/19 "2011-09-30T15:47:01Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > I don’t know about the OP, but I certainly am not. In the absence of its guarantee we have governments suppressing ideas, and with it we have individuals whipping up mobs with sophistic propaganda. I find neither acceptable, but I consider the rogue the worse. You seem like kind of a pussy. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/20 "2011-09-30T15:48:53Z")
Can I split the difference? I don’t like deliberately targeting people for assasination, but I see the need. I would much preferred to have tried and executed him for treason, rather than this. He was acting in a civilian rather than military capacity AFAIK. Unlike the usual terrorist fighter, he wasn’t hiding among the civilian population and popping out to murder and make war when convenient. He does not fall in the category of guerrilla soldier. It’s true no geneva Convention statue protects him, but only because he’s not any kind of soldier. That said, I ain’t shedding too many tears here. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158.md?page=2)