# Al-Awlaki Killed **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 30, 2011, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158 "2011-09-30T14:51:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/61 "2011-09-30T17:09:04Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > You’re clearly an expert at being an internet tough guy, but your grasp of our constitutional protections seems rather limited. Right, you’re obviously correct that the President has to prove various things before using military force against the enemy. I’d like to see you give us any cite at all to support the absurd notion that any President in history has been required to get approval prior to taking specific military action against an enemy Congress has already authorized the use of force against. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/62 "2011-09-30T17:10:50Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > In what way were the 4th and 5th Amendments violated. Al Awlaki, a US citizen, was seized, and deprived of life, without a warrant or due process of law. > [@Martin Hyde](#): > > We actually had a discussion about this a few months ago, and you outright refused to answer several of my hypotheticals citing them as irrelevant Sorry you don’t ping my memory. Help me out with a cite. ETA: Found it. You were asking about using the technology from the 1800’s to do something or other. I couldn’t really find a reason it was relevant. Please, explain it to me. > [@Martin Hyde](#): > > Well, in this case yours is irrelevant, we aren’t talking about anything that happened on U.S. soil. Keep dodging. Speaks volumes. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/63 "2011-09-30T17:11:44Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Al Awlaki, a US citizen, was seized, and deprived of life, without a warrant or due process of law. No, he was killed in a military strike. > [@](#): > > Sorry you don’t ping my memory. Help me out with a cite. Keep dodging. Speaks volumes. Not my problem. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/64 "2011-09-30T17:13:46Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I’m actually for the assassination of those people who post “cute kitty” videos. Join the club and pay your dues. We’re still $39.999.994 and 95 cents short of our first Predator drone, so every little bit helps. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/65 "2011-09-30T17:13:51Z")
I will also reiterate your bullshit, pussy fairy tale hypothetical situation has _nothing_ to do with this thread. So your blasting me for “dodging it” just makes you look like a little bitch, you don’t get to mandate people respond to off topic bullshit just because your arguments here have nothing to do with what actually happened and nothing you’ve said here has any substantiation under U.S. law. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/66 "2011-09-30T17:16:29Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > No, he was killed in a military strike. Which deprived him of his life and counts as a seizure under the 4th Amendment per Garner v. Tennessee. They aren’t mutually exclusive. > [@Martin Hyde](#): > > Not my problem. I know it’s not. It just tells me what kind of “debate” you’re pretending to do. Tells me a lot about you. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/67 "2011-09-30T17:17:28Z")
Say “military strike” 10 more times and I might be convinced. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/68 "2011-09-30T17:17:43Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Al Awlaki, a US citizen, was seized, and deprived of life, without a warrant or due process of law. > . I’m pretty sure he was free to go afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/69 "2011-09-30T17:17:54Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Which deprived him of his life and counts as a seizure under the 4th Amendment per Garner v. Tennessee. When was the last time the SCOTUS ruled a military strike that resulted in deaths counts a a seizure? I’m genuinely curious on that one. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/70 "2011-09-30T17:17:57Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I will also reiterate your bullshit, pussy fairy tale hypothetical situation has _nothing_ to do with this thread. So your blasting me for “dodging it” just makes you look like a little bitch, you don’t get to mandate people respond to off topic bullshit just because your arguments here have nothing to do with what actually happened and nothing you’ve said here has any substantiation under U.S. law. Wow, I can tell when you run out of actual points that you have to resort to “pussy fairy tale” and “you look like a little bitch”. I can see I’m wasting my time with you. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/71 "2011-09-30T17:19:07Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Say “military strike” 10 more times and I might be convinced. Obviously you’re no longer debating, see you when you decide to come back to the big boy table. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/72 "2011-09-30T17:20:39Z")
Oooooh, give me more of that manly-man rhetoric, it’s so effective. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/73 "2011-09-30T17:20:59Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > It’s the citizen part which bothers me. I don’t really care if we target a foreign commander. Al-Awaki wasn’t. So I’m in agreement there. I just don’t condemn, say, the Pacific Forces in WW2 for hunting down Yamamoto. > > But this was not something I condone, even if I don’t really care emotionally. I see what you’re saying, and I do understand your argument, but does that mean that, if Yamamoto had been a US citizen; lets say he, hypothetically, had been born in San Francisco and then moved to Japan as a baby where the rest of his life had played out the same way; if that had been the case, you would have had a problem with the Pacific Forces in WW2 shooting him down? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/74 "2011-09-30T17:21:41Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Wow, I can tell when you run out of actual points that you have to resort to “pussy fairy tale” and “you look like a little bitch”. I can see I’m wasting my time with you. I think the one who is wasting time is the person who blathers on about the Constitution and then has no evidence to support any of those things have ever been held to relate to military strikes ever. If they have, please give us the evidence. Until then all you’re doing is being an asshole by trying to make people play your game when you’ve done nothing to support your _assertions_, you are the one making assertions, you are the one that must support them. My side on this is backed up by what is accepted by all: the President did this, and he’s not been punished for it or legally chastised in any way. No one that I’m aware of has filed any suit against him, the SCOTUS has not ruled on it and probably never will. So in the face of all the evidence of legal acceptance, if you believe it is legally unacceptable you need to demonstrate that forcefully and you have not. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/75 "2011-09-30T17:22:00Z")
> [@moidalize](#): > > oooooh, give me more of that manly-man rhetoric, it’s so effective. military strike, bitch!!! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/76 "2011-09-30T17:24:39Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > The CIA can and does participate in military actions. This wasn’t “participation”. The strike was carried out by a CIA drone operated by CIA personnel under the command of CIA senior management. Is the CIA part of the United States military? If yes, is the Department of the Interior also part? NASA? The Marshals Service? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/77 "2011-09-30T17:25:45Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > This wasn’t “participation”. The strike was carried out by a CIA drone operated by CIA personnel under the command of CIA senior management. > > Is the CIA part of the United States military? If yes, is the Department of the Interior also part? NASA? The Marshals Service? The CIA is often involved in military actions. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/78 "2011-09-30T17:26:54Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > My side on this is backed up by what is accepted by all: the President did this, and he’s not been punished for it or legally chastised in any way. No one that I’m aware of has filed any suit against him, the SCOTUS has not ruled on it and probably never will. > [@](#): > > There are no mitigating factors, here. Obama is arguing the executive has the power to execute American citizens without a trial, without even so much as an airing of the charges against them, and that it can do so in complete secrecy, with no oversight from any court, and that the families of the executed have no legal recourse. > > You can’t even make the weak argument that the executive at least has to claim this power in the course of protecting national security. Because it doesn’t matter. Obama is arguing that he has the right to keep everything about these executions secret—including the reasons they were orderedt—merely by uttering the magic phrase “state secrets.” In other words, that this power would only arise under a national security context is deemed irrelevant by the fact that not only is Obama claiming the president’s word on what qualifies as “national security” is final, he’s claiming the power in such a way that there’s no audience to whom he would ever need to make that connection. > > So yeah. Tyranny. If there’s more tyrannical power a president could possibly claim than the power to execute the citizens of his country at his sole discretion, with no oversight, no due process, and no ability for anyone to question the execution even after the fact . . . I can’t think of it. > **[The Agitator](http://www.theagitator.com)** ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/79 "2011-09-30T17:27:37Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > [The Agitator](http://www.theagitator.com/2010/09/27/tyranny/) Executions are carried out against criminals by the State. No such thing happened here. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158/80 "2011-09-30T17:27:56Z")
Why do you hate the Constitution, **Martin**? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-awlaki-killed/598158.md?page=5)