# Al Franken lied **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 28, 2003, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-franken-lied/204350 "2003-09-28T20:12:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-franken-lied/204350/21 "2003-09-29T08:06:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Derleth \* > \*\*Al Franken is a humorist, like Mark Twain only not nearly as good. > > Anyone who takes him seriously needs to re-evaluate how they judge information sources. \*\* Al Franken’s book is quite funny, yes. It’s also, however, trying to make many serious points about politics, the media, the war, etc. Furthermore, it repeatedly points out (or claims it points out) cases in which various conservative figures have lied. Therefore, it absolutely calls out to be vetted for accuracy thoroughly and rigorously. Just because something is funny doesn’t make it not meaningful. And I found several of his arguments to be **very** meaningful. If you would like me to mention them and attempt to debate them, let me know. Oh, and **Scylla** , care to point out the outright fabrication? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-franken-lied/204350/22 "2003-09-29T13:13:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > \*\*Good grief. You apparently **disagree** with Franken’s **assesment** that the statement is ‘stupid’. That doesn’t make him a liar. That makes him ‘some one w/whom you disagree’. > > While it is true that not ‘all’ imports come from ‘overseas’, I also agree that the statement that Bush made was ‘stupid’. And I ain’t lying. \*\* Apparently you’re not familiar with the current state of politics in the USA. Franken is a traitor, Acidkid is a patriot. Damned Democrats. Why won’t they vote republican like other patriots? -Joe, average ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-franken-lied/204350/23 "2003-09-29T18:31:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > \*\*[overseas](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=overseas): adv. Beyond the sea; abroad. > > [abroad](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=abroad): adv. & adj. Out of one’s own country. In a foreign country or countries. Away from one’s home. > > Conclusion: George Bush said something terribly stupid. Also in the news, bear shits in woods. Film at 11 on the Discovery Channel. \*\* Have you ever said something stupid? ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-franken-lied/204350/24 "2003-09-29T19:01:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*Have you ever said something stupid? \*\* As someone running for and currently holding the job of leader of the free world, Bush has to be held to a higher standard. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-franken-lied/204350/25 "2003-09-29T19:08:14Z")
You think Al Franken is bad? I hear that Mark Russell doesn’t even write the music to those songs of his. I call plagarism. Damn political humorists! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-franken-lied/204350/26 "2003-09-29T20:30:12Z")
I’m still waiting for cites on Franken’s fabrications. I even opened a thread in the past asking for people to tell what was incorrect in his Rush Limbaugh book, and I got nothing. Can’t find that thread now for some reason, maybe it was part of that lost content. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-franken-lied/204350/27 "2003-09-29T21:07:46Z")
[Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=51677&highlight=limbaugh+franken+idiot+book)’s the thread, if I’m not mistaken… ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-franken-lied/204350/28 "2003-09-29T21:12:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*As someone running for and currently holding the job of leader of the free world, Bush has to be held to a higher standard. \*\* Did you apply that same principle to Clinton? Aside from the chronic adultery and “false, misleading and evasive answers that were designed to obstruct the judicial process”[sup]\*[/sup], Clinton’s famous “I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky” was pretty stupid. So was “That depends on what your definition of is is”. [sup]\*[/sup]U.S. District Judge Susan Webber Wright ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-franken-lied/204350/29 "2003-09-29T21:16:41Z")
Of course. Not all Bush haters are Clinton lovers. I just think he was less evil than the other guy. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-franken-lied/204350/30 "2003-09-29T21:17:01Z")
And reviewing the thread, looks like anti-Frankens came up with diddley-squat in terms of factual errors or inaccuracies. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-franken-lied/204350/31 "2003-09-29T21:19:29Z")
That’s it! Thanks **ArchiveGuy**. Maybe my search for “Franken” in the title doesn’t get a hit for “Franken’s”. Although logicially it should, I would think. It seems my memory was accurate; nobody can come up a disputed fact from Franken’s book. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-franken-lied/204350/32 "2003-09-29T21:23:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ArchiveGuy \* > \*\*And reviewing the thread, looks like anti-Frankens came up with diddley-squat in terms of factual errors or inaccuracies. \*\* Yes, but he’s an actor, what does he know about politics? Now Reagan and Schwartzeneggar, those are politicians! ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-franken-lied/204350/33 "2003-09-29T21:29:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*Of course. Not all Bush haters are Clinton lovers. I just think he was less evil than the other guy. \*\* The other guy? Do you mean Bob Dole? […confused…] ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-franken-lied/204350/34 "2003-09-29T21:47:13Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Libertarian \* > Aside from the chronic adultery and “false, misleading and evasive answers that were designed to obstruct the judicial process”[sup]_[/sup], Clinton’s famous “I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky” was pretty stupid. So was “That depends on what your definition of is is”. I don’t recall Bill Clinton snubbing the UN or starting a war over Monica Lewinsky, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-franken-lied/204350/35 "2003-09-29T22:05:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*The other guy? Do you mean Bob Dole? […confused…] \*\* yeah, or Bush 1.0. Dole himself is not a bad guy, but he would be surrounded by evil most foul. The same type Bush 1.0 was and Bush 2.0 is. Clinton was also surrounded by evil, but it was decidedly less foul, more of a mild distaste, like mayonase left out in the sun as opposed to mayonase found after 16 years in the back of the fridge. ---
**Author:** ![cheddarsnax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cheddarsnax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cheddarsnax)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-franken-lied/204350/36 "2003-09-29T22:11:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > **What’s with the sarcasm? Perhaps you can cite an example of when Franken has ever lied in one of his books?** **SnoopyFan** : We’re still waiting. ---
**Author:** ![RTA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@RTA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTA)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-franken-lied/204350/37 "2003-09-29T22:25:51Z")
Franken’s a piker. You people want to see a fucking liar, I refer you to that A-hole Don Novello. Novello went around dressed as a priest (which he’s **not** ) and called himself “Father Guido Sarducci” (a FAKE name!). He claimed to regularly consult with the Vatican - a lie! He would go on TV and solicit money for fake charities! He even tried to start his own fraudulent religion, where everyone could be a Pope! He wrote numerous lying letters to all manner of innocent corporations and institutions and even heads of state, using another FAKE name, “Lazlo Toth”. He even wrote President Nixon and, while LYING and under false pretenses, conned him out of five dollars!! Why has this rapscallion gone unpunished in the marketplace of ideas? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-franken-lied/204350/38 "2003-09-29T23:18:31Z")
God has an inexplicable fondness for rogues. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-franken-lied/204350/39 "2003-09-29T23:53:29Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*Did you apply that same principle to Clinton? Aside from the chronic adultery and “false, misleading and evasive answers that were designed to obstruct the judicial process”[sup]_[/sup], Clinton’s famous “I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky” was pretty stupid. So was “That depends on what your definition of is is”.\*\* and > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*Of course. Not all Bush haters are Clinton lovers. I just think he was less evil than the other guy. \*\* Yeah, what he said, **Lib**. I mean, i really thought that you were too smart to take such a ridiculous, knee-jerk attitude to those who criticize Bush. You’d think a libertarian, someone not aligned with either major party, would be cognizant enough of various political allegiances to realize that criticism of a Republican president does not necessarily mean support for his Democratic predecessor. Have you joined the **Brutus** school of political debate? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-franken-lied/204350/40 "2003-09-30T00:25:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MaxTheVool \* > \*\*Oh, and **Scylla** , care to point out the outright fabrication? \*\* Sure. It was a lot harder to find it, than I thought but the relevant thread is here: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=197651&highlight=rush+limbaugh+study](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=197651&highlight=rush+limbaugh+study) Go down until you find Sofa King’s post and start reading. According to links to the actual study Franken cites Franken has outright stated that the results are the opposite of what they actually were. Secondly, he completely falsified the actual meaning of “ditto.” I was interested enough in what Sofa said to go check out the first 12 or so pages of Franken’s Limbaugh book on [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com) and indeed Franken has fabricated the results as described. This doesn’t bother me all that much. Franken’s a political humorist. It seems pretty clear to me from the first 12 pages that Franken is riffing and making use of license. But since you asked, the dittohead thing is most likely a fabrication (though if he was really ignorant of the show he might not know what it actually means and Franken does claim ignorance.) The study though is a definite falshehood. Let me know if you have any questions, and give Sofa any credit due. He did the work and produced the cites. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-franken-lied/204350.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-franken-lied/204350.md?page=3)