# Al Franken lied **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 28, 2003, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-franken-lied/204350 "2003-09-28T20:12:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-franken-lied/204350/81 "2003-10-02T20:05:17Z")
I gotta agree with CarnalK… the whole Kirkpatrick thing must be a total joke. And if it isn’t, then Jeanne Kirkpatrick is a humorless freak. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > \*\*-On preview page 6 Franken Franken says “These are the fans who voluntarily-hell, gleefully call themselves “dittoheads” in honor of their ability to blindly and uncritically agree with everything that comes out of Limbaugh’s mouth.” > > As has been previously note this is not at all what ditto or dittohead means, and is really a big error for somebody who claims enough knowledge of the show to write critically. > \*\* Isn’t it what ditto means? I thought that “ditto” may have started out meaning what you claim it means, but it evolved into the unofficial password of the Rush fan… when someone calls the show (as I’ve seen on the few occasions when I’ve watched it) and says “megadittos from (name of town)”, they don’t mean “I really really really strongly agree with the previous caller”. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-franken-lied/204350/82 "2003-10-02T20:26:29Z")
I took “dittohead” and, say, “queer” to be similar in that the word originated as a derogatory way to characterize a group of people, only to have that group of people embrace the term on their own to the extent that it’s more often seen and applied by the name-callees, not the name-callers. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-franken-lied/204350/83 "2003-10-02T20:50:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MaxTheVool \* > \*\*Isn’t it what ditto means? I thought that “ditto” may have started out meaning what you claim it means, but it evolved into the unofficial password of the Rush fan… when someone calls the show (as I’ve seen on the few occasions when I’ve watched it) and says “megadittos from (name of town)”, they don’t mean “I really really really strongly agree with the previous caller”. \*\* I disagree. It means, “I really really really like you, Rush, and would gush about you endlessly, just like thousands of callers before me have done.” It’s not “the previous caller” but “the legion of previous callers who all said the same positive things about you.” It doesn’t mean, “I agree and will parrot anything you say.” How do I know? Because so many callers do this: “Megadittos from Bumpkinville, USA. You know, Rush, I usually agree with you, but on the issue of…” Being a dittohead means you think Rush is great and you listen all the time. It doesn’t mean, “I ditto everything you say.” And I don’t think that’s a distinction without a difference. Julie ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-franken-lied/204350/84 "2003-10-02T21:20:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jsgoddess \* > \*\*I disagree. It means, “I really really really like you, Rush, and would gush about you endlessly, just like thousands of callers before me have done.” It’s not “the previous caller” but “the legion of previous callers who all said the same positive things about you.” > > It doesn’t mean, “I agree and will parrot anything you say.” > > How do I know? Because so many callers do this: “Megadittos from Bumpkinville, USA. You know, Rush, I usually agree with you, but on the issue of…” > > Being a dittohead means you think Rush is great and you listen all the time. It doesn’t mean, “I ditto everything you say.” > \*\* I basically agree with you. Although at this point I’ve lost track of whether that means you agree or disagree with what Al Franken said in the first place, as seen through the filter of **Scylla**. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-franken-lied/204350/85 "2003-10-02T22:14:52Z")
Franken, indeed, wrote the very amusing “review by Jeanne Kirkpatrick,” deliberately pointing out the kind of “fact-based” (but entirely beside the point) criticism he expected from his more humorless readers. What **Scylla** points out is that, in this Franken writing, he calls Limbaugh “fat,” and that Limbaugh is, in fact, no longer fat. This is hardly a factual error, as Limbaugh was fat at the time of writing, as **Scylla** himself pointed out. In fact, that entire argument sort of implodes at that point, and I really don’t know why he brought it up. And of course, Franken says Limbaugh isn’t an idiot; that’s to set up the hilarious line (paraphrased) “I guess this book should really have been called _Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Liar._ But I didn’t want to make it personal.” Re: _The Bell Curve_ – it’s a syllogism, **Scylla**. Heh. They call themselves dittoheads “in honor of their ability to blindly and uncritically agree with everything that comes out of Limbaugh’s mouth.” – It’s not really true? Gee, and I thought that was a word-for-word quote :rolleyes: I think he captures the Rushies’ mindset pretty well, regardless of what “ditto” means to them. But then, I would. The larger problem here is that critics of the book ignore the satirical value of, for example, misquoting a study, misleading a public figure on the phone, and making up events. He accuses Limbaugh of doing all these things, you see. I’m pretty sure the stats are real, and I’m pretty sure he really did make the public appearances he mentions, but I’ve always assumed that much of the rest was either invented or exaggerated. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-franken-lied/204350/86 "2003-10-02T23:40:40Z")
From what I’ve heard. "mega dittoes’ is almost invariably said by mindless, uncritical morons. I can’t fathom thatn an intelligent person or an independent thinker would ever be capable of mouthing such an inanity. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-franken-lied/204350/87 "2003-10-03T01:13:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CarnalK \* > \*\*Umm **Scylla** , isn’t that book review at the beginning of the AMAZON preview a put on? Jeane Kirkpatrick? Then Franken claims they were lovers in his editorial reply? I thought the “review” was to make fun of people who would (deliberately or not) be wooshed. > > Heh. \*\* Now that you point that out, that does seem likely, even obvious. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-franken-lied/204350/88 "2003-10-03T02:30:13Z")
It’s rather serendipitous that I happened to read this [Daily Howler article](http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh100103.shtml) just the other day. The article’s subject is oddly parallel though I’m sure more interesting to those who closely follow the American pundit scene (unlike myself). ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2003, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-franken-lied/204350/89 "2003-10-04T06:19:54Z")
As I mentioned above, I emailed a question about the Jamieson study to the contact email for Al Franken. And I just got a very polite response, pointing out what we in this thread had since deduced, that the confusion was between the preliminary results and final results of the study, as Al admitted in **Liars**. Al Franken is a class act. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-franken-lied/204350.md?page=4)