# Al-Jazeera broadcasting leaked "Palestine Papers" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 24, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-broadcasting-leaked-palestine-papers/568808 "2011-01-24T17:31:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-broadcasting-leaked-palestine-papers/568808/21 "2011-01-24T23:35:20Z")
> [@These are my own pants](#): > > Again excuses, quite frnakly if hear another pro-Israeli excuse as to why they can’t make peace or as gto why they shot an old woman, etc, etc, I’ll scream. It’s funny how one distinct storyline is being pushed by media, that of how Palestinians are angry over disclosure of their side being the one that actually wanted the peace, that their side blinked, that their side so desperately needed a win to justify themselves. And Israelis, off the hook with occasional but expected praise. I must live in a parallel universe :o ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-broadcasting-leaked-palestine-papers/568808/22 "2011-01-25T01:54:29Z")
What I want to know is…if the Palestinians (the PLO) were bending over backwards in their negotiations, why didn’t Israel take them up on it? Why has the government and its supporters been painting the Palestinians as greedy-gusses with unreasonable demands if, assuming these documents are true, that hasn’t been the case (at least behind the scenes)? That’s what make Israel looks bad, IMHO. I wish I had Al-Jazeera on my non-existent cable box. It would be interesting to see the Palestinian-man-on-the-street’s opinion on this matter first-hand, rather than hearing speculations about what they probably are. I mean, I’d probably be pissed if I were Palestinian too, but not for the reasons that are being given. I’d be pissed that ten years ago the whole mess could have been squashed, and yet I’m still living in a bombed-out refugee camp. I’d be furious, actually. It is being said that Hamas is going to get a lot of steam out of this, since they will be able to point out how much of a sell-out the PLO was. But I would think that the average Palestinian would be willing to do anything just to have a real home and citizenship SOMEWHERE. So if I were Ms. Palestinian, my response to Hamas would be, “Yeah, they may have been sell-outs, but what have you done for us!?” I await other leaks. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-broadcasting-leaked-palestine-papers/568808/23 "2011-01-25T02:22:08Z")
For those reading along and curious of the context, negotiations between Israel and the PA broke down in December of 2008. This was largely due to the fact that Israel went to war against Hamas in Gaza. Negotiations didn’t just inexplicably stop. > [@These are my own pants](#): > > The Right of Return is something enshrouded in UN resolution 242 Not true. What United Nations Security Council Resolution 242 actually says about refugees is that the two parties must: [ > [@](#): > > [achieve] a just settlement of the refugee problem; ]([http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/un/un242.htm](http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/un/un242.htm)) Casting “a just settlement” as “The Right of Return” is not accurate. You were probably thinking about United Nations General Assembly Resolution 194, not UNSCR 242. (And I think you mean “enshrined”. Although the UN does do some “enshrouding”…) > [@These are my own pants](#): > > However to say the Palestinians have ever asked for anything more than a symbolic gesture in negoiatiosn with Israel in this respect is wrong. Well, again, let’s check the facts on that one. [ > [@](#): > > The Palestinian view In the eyes of Hassan Asfur, one of the members of the Palestinian delegation, this is the way things look: "Israeli claims in regard to negotiations over the right of return and what was achieved in them are total lies. In the Swedish channel, the subject discussed was the application of UN General Assembly Resolution 194. Our position was decisive: To grant each and every Palestinian the right of return. The Israeli side kept trying to negotiate over compensation that would be given to the refugees instead of the right of return, and we refused. > > "We agreed to continue the discussions under the assumption that the Israelis would ultimately become more flexible in their position. We did not conduct negotiations on the number of refugees that would receive the right to return to Israel. > > "Talk about agreements in which we backed down on the right of return, about a document that would present an agreed-upon narrative, and about an agreement over a mechanism which would allow for compensation for the refugees - such talk is untenable. When we arrived at Camp David, additional discussions took place in which there was no progress made. > > “I would like to clarify this issue: There is, as far as we are concerned, no option of relinquishing an absolute, sweeping right of return. Every refugee has the right to return to his homeland.” ]([Palestine Refugees and the Right of Return](http://www.mideastweb.org/refugees3.htm)) > [@These are my own pants](#): > > Trying to sell the Right of Return as a major sticking point is either ignorant or dishonest Or, factual. Don’t forget factual. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Amazing\_Hanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@The\_Amazing\_Hanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Amazing_Hanna)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-broadcasting-leaked-palestine-papers/568808/24 "2011-01-25T02:52:35Z")
FinnAgain: The Palestinians offered to cut right of return to a symbolic 1,000 a year over a ten year period, as cited above. Clearly they didn’t say so in public, but that’s what they offered behind closed doors. That’s pretty much giving up right of return, or at least 99,8% of it. They didn’t so much bend over backwards as do reverse cartwheels at supersonic speeds. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-broadcasting-leaked-palestine-papers/568808/25 "2011-01-25T03:02:30Z")
> [@The\_Amazing\_Hanna](#): > > The Palestinians offered to cut right of return to a symbolic 1,000 a year over a ten year period, as cited above. I was responding to the claim that: “to say the Palestinians have ever asked for anything more than a symbolic gesture in negoiatiosn with Israel in this respect is wrong.” [And remember, in 2008 after the offer was made it was Abbas who suspended negotiations.](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-10803715) ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-broadcasting-leaked-palestine-papers/568808/26 "2011-01-25T03:51:36Z")
Two simple questions (and they’re not supposed to be rhetorical - I actually want to know.) 1. Is it true or is it not true that the various organizations (PLO, Hamas, Fatah, etc) that they have chosen to represent them explicitly state that their goal is the _destruction_ of the state of Israel? 2. If Israel were to negotiate a peace deal favorable to the Arabs (creation of a second state, or something else), would these organizations drop the goal of destroying Israel? ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-broadcasting-leaked-palestine-papers/568808/27 "2011-01-25T04:02:54Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Two simple questions (and they’re not supposed to be rhetorical - I actually want to know.) > > 1. Is it true or is it not true that the various organizations (PLO, Hamas, Fatah, etc) that they have chosen to represent them explicitly state that their goal is the _destruction_ of the state of Israel? The PLO (Fatah being a member of the PLO) has recognized Israel’s right to exist. As far as I can remember, Hamas has not. > [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > 1. If Israel were to negotiate a peace deal favorable to the Arabs (creation of a second state, or something else), would these organizations drop the goal of destroying Israel? I am not sure why it would matter that one political group did or did not drop some rhetoric. The resultant peace deal would give no control by Palestinians over their air space or ports, no control over anything in the way that we would think a sovereign nation would control their borders. Israel would have nothing to fear from Hamas whether they changed their rhetoric or not. The better question is why is it necessary for millions of people and the democratic process to be repressed in the Palestinian territories because of a few words in a charter? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-broadcasting-leaked-palestine-papers/568808/28 "2011-01-25T04:18:33Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Is it true or is it not true that the various organizations (PLO, Hamas, Fatah, etc) that they have chosen to represent them explicitly state that their goal is the _destruction_ of the state of Israel? Hamas: [ > [@](#): > > We have liberated Gaza, but have we recognized Israel? Have we given up our lands occupied in 1948? We demand the liberation of the West Bank, and the establishment of a state in the West Bank and Gaza, with Jerusalem as its capital – but without recognizing [Israel].This is the key – without recognizing the Israeli enemy on a single inch of land. > […] > "Our plan for this stage is to liberate any inch of Palestinian land, and to establish a state on it. Our ultimate plan is [to have] Palestine in its entirety. I say this loud and clear so that nobody will accuse me of employing political tactics. We will not recognize the Israeli enemy. " ]([http://www.instmed.org/imed/2010/07/hamas-plan-to-establish-palestinian-state.html](http://www.instmed.org/imed/2010/07/hamas-plan-to-establish-palestinian-state.html)) [ > [@](#): > > Muhammad Deif, head of Hamas’s military wing, wrote: “The Kassam Brigades… are better prepared to continue on our exclusive path to which there is no alternative, and that is the path of jihad and the fight against the enemies of the Muslim nation and mankind… We say to our enemies: You are going on the path to extinction, (zawal), and Palestine will remain ours including Jerusalem, Al-Aksa, its towns and villages from the sea to the river, from its north to its south. You have no right to even an inch of it.” > > Ahmed al-Jaabari, the acting supreme commander of the Kassam Brigades, wrote: “Our eyes will always remain focused toward Al-Kuds and Al-Aksa and [their gaze] will not be confined to the borders of Gaza. Our plan of struggle shall extend as always, sooner or later, to our entire plundered country. The Kassam Brigades have never excluded and will not exclude from their considerations any possible option to activate resistance, liberate prisoners and subdue the criminal, thieving enemy, and as long as the Zionists occupy our lands, only death or exile await them.” ]([http://new.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=202240](http://new.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=202240)) [ > [@](#): > > "The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. " > > “There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.” ]([Hamas Charter](http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm)) The PLO:[ > [@](#): > > Article 1:Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the Arab homeland, and the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation. > > Article 2:Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit. > > Article 9: Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. This it is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase. The Palestinian Arab people assert their absolute determination and firm resolution to continue their armed struggle and to work for an armed popular revolution for the liberation of their country and their return to it. They also assert their right to normal life in Palestine and to exercise their right to self-determination and sovereignty over it. > > Article 10: Commando action constitutes the nucleus of the Palestinian popular liberation war. This requires its escalation, comprehensiveness, and the mobilization of all the Palestinian popular and educational efforts and their organization and involvement in the armed Palestinian revolution. It also requires the achieving of unity for the national (watani) struggle among the different groupings of the Palestinian people, and between the Palestinian people and the Arab masses, so as to secure the continuation of the revolution, its escalation, and victory. > > Article 19: The partition of Palestine in 1947 and the establishment of the state of Israel are entirely illegal, regardless of the passage of time, because they were contrary to the will of the Palestinian people and to their natural right in their homeland, and inconsistent with the principles embodied in the Charter of the United Nations, particularly the right to self-determination. > > Article 21: The Arab Palestinian people, expressing themselves by the armed Palestinian revolution, reject all solutions which are substitutes for the total liberation of Palestine and reject all proposals aiming at the liquidation of the Palestinian problem, or its internationalization. > > Article 22: Zionism is a political movement organically associated with international imperialism and antagonistic to all action for liberation and to progressive movements in the world. It is racist and fanatic in its nature, aggressive, expansionist, and colonial in its aims, and fascist in its methods. Israel is the instrument of the Zionist movement, and geographical base for world imperialism placed strategically in the midst of the Arab homeland to combat the hopes of the Arab nation for liberation, unity, and progress. Israel is a constant source of threat vis-a-vis peace in the Middle East and the whole world. Since the liberation of Palestine will destroy the Zionist and imperialist presence and will contribute to the establishment of peace in the Middle East, the Palestinian people look for the support of all the progressive and peaceful forces and urge them all, irrespective of their affiliations and beliefs, to offer the Palestinian people all aid and support in their just struggle for the liberation of their homeland. ]([PLO Covenant (Charter) 1968](http://www.mideastweb.org/plocha.htm)) Fatah is a bit more complex. They have, at least, come to stand for some degree of peace and security with Israel… but they also sling the lingo when required as the ‘street’ doesn’t always take too kindly to such talk (as the reaction to these recent leaks demonstrates). It’s a good bit more involved and nuanced than that, but that’s the general situation. As for peace, I’d wager that Fatah might actually make good on negotiations but Hamas most certainly would not. > [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > The PLO (Fatah being a member of the PLO) has recognized Israel’s right to exist. [It’s not quite that simple.](http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=381&fld_id=381&doc_id=862) ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-broadcasting-leaked-palestine-papers/568808/29 "2011-01-25T11:13:15Z")
Okay, so Palestine is saying these leaks are faked. Do we have any evidence they’re telling the truth? What’s Israel saying? Remember, Al-Jazeera is a reliable news source, unless you’re talking about Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-broadcasting-leaked-palestine-papers/568808/30 "2011-01-25T11:56:52Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Remember, Al-Jazeera is a reliable news source, unless you’re talking about Israel. What? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-broadcasting-leaked-palestine-papers/568808/31 "2011-01-25T12:24:20Z")
It just shows how absurd the whole thing is. Virtually everyone knows what an actual peace agreement will look like and of course it includes land swaps modifying the 1967 line and the Palestinian side giving up most if not all of E Jerusalem (some symbolic presence) and the Right to Return (allowing instead some symbolic number and other face saving concessions in exchange). It also includes Israel having to evacuate some settlements as well. _Of course_ any serious negotiation included those options with the only real questions being what gets packaged around it - how does Israel get reassured that security can be delivered and what else do the Palestinians get in terms which land in exchange, of water rights, revenue sharing, etc. - and how then to sell it to each side’s voters. Everyone knows this and yet neither side can publicly admit to it. Neither side can stand up to their domestic pressures to look tough until they can present the whole package and sell that they are getting enough in return. Absurd. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-broadcasting-leaked-palestine-papers/568808/32 "2011-01-25T14:16:15Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > It just shows how absurd the whole thing is. Virtually everyone knows what an actual peace agreement will look like and of course it includes land swaps modifying the 1967 line and the Palestinian side giving up most if not all of E Jerusalem (some symbolic presence) and the Right to Return (allowing instead some symbolic number and other face saving concessions in exchange). It also includes Israel having to evacuate some settlements as well. _Of course_ any serious negotiation included those options with the only real questions being what gets packaged around it - how does Israel get reassured that security can be delivered and what else do the Palestinians get in terms which land in exchange, of water rights, revenue sharing, etc. - and how then to sell it to each side’s voters. > > Everyone knows this and yet neither side can publicly admit to it. Neither side can stand up to their domestic pressures to look tough until they can present the whole package and sell that they are getting enough in return. > > Absurd. I actually have tons of sympathy for the Palestinian negotiators. The fact is that with the Hamas split, their bargaining power is basically nil - they cannot even legitimately offer a comprehensive peace, as that is no longer in their power to command; any goodwill gestures they make can easily be countered by Hamas provocations, and it is in Hamas’ best interests to _avoid_ any comprehensive peace - which would invariably undercut its influence vs. the PA. Meanwhile, any realistic concessions they make will be seen (as demonstrated) as ‘sell-outs’. They are boxed in. It doesn’t help that the current Israeli gov’t is the most hardline in years and uninterested in making any concessions. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-broadcasting-leaked-palestine-papers/568808/33 "2011-01-25T15:11:59Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > It doesn’t help that the current Israeli gov’t is the most hardline in years and uninterested in making any concessions. I think these papers show, actually confirm what has been for a long time just a speculation (usually branded as anti-Semitic; i.e. those who accused Israel of not wanting the peace) that there is a policy in place, regardless of what Government is governing, the policy of continued and never-ending climate of tension maintained for the purpose of grabbing more land and further erosion of human rights of Palestinians. But really, it is not about the land or Palestinians anymore. The activities that Israel engages in against Palestinians and their property are just a vehicle for something of a bigger long term value. These activities are useful, and in my opinion quite instrumental in three long term initiatives: - Use of this conflict as a vehicle for mounting political, diplomatic and, in some cases, armed conflict with various neighbouring countries (think Iran, Syria and Lebanon) - Use of the conflict for maintainance of its favourite position in the overall US foreign policy and central role specifically with respect to ME (now that Cold War is over) - Use of the conflict for maintain war-like atmosphere in the country of Israel thus enabling certain breed of politicians and their electorate to rule the country since inception (I find this one most disturbing). At the same time, what is really palatable, but then equally previously speculated, is that US policy makers are too well aware of this; they knew of this dynamic during the talks and choose, deliberately to misinform and mislead US public in collaboration with media to leave an impression that it is in fact Palestinians who are the obstacle to the peace. Where to go from here is hard to say but I do not see anyone really making any fuss about these revelations. So, I guess, it’s business as usual. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-broadcasting-leaked-palestine-papers/568808/34 "2011-01-25T15:23:56Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > I think these papers show, actually confirm what has been for a long time just a speculation (usually branded as anti-Semitic; i.e. those who accused Israel of not wanting the peace) that there is a policy in place, regardless of what Government is governing, the policy of continued and never-ending climate of tension maintained for the purpose of grabbing more land and further erosion of human rights of Palestinians. But really, it is not about the land or Palestinians anymore. The activities that Israel engages in against Palestinians and their property are just a vehicle for something of a bigger long term value. > > These activities are useful, and in my opinion quite instrumental in three long term initiatives: > > - Use of this conflict as a vehicle for mounting political, diplomatic and, in some cases, armed conflict with various neighbouring countries (think Iran, Syria and Lebanon) > - Use of the conflict for maintainance of its favourite position in the overall US foreign policy and central role specifically with respect to ME (now that Cold War is over) > - Use of the conflict for maintain war-like atmosphere in the country of Israel thus enabling certain breed of politicians and their electorate to rule the country since inception (I find this one most disturbing). > > At the same time, what is really palatable, but then equally previously speculated, is that US policy makers are too well aware of this; they knew of this dynamic during the talks and choose, deliberately to misinform and mislead US public in collaboration with media to leave an impression that it is in fact Palestinians who are the obstacle to the peace. > > Where to go from here is hard to say but I do not see anyone really making any fuss about these revelations. So, I guess, it’s business as usual. Woah, I don’t agree that it shows anything of the sort. You are I thing assigning far to much malicious and purposive intent and control to Israeli politicians, in addition to I think falsely assuming that they are, in spite of their vicious party differences, really all in cahoots together. This is not reflective of the reality of Israeli domestic politics, or of politics in the area as a whole. Israel is not the only actor here, and nor is it, or its political class, united in purpose. Neither, for that matter, are the Palestinians, broken as they are into warring halves. Fact is that the “revelations” have been expressly disclaimed by the Palestinian negotiator who allegedly made them as being taken out of context and not reflecting firm offers actually made; also fact is that the event which broke off negotiations had nothing to do with the PA/Israel negotiations - it was the war with Hamas. The temptation to take a complex situation and reduce it to a simplistic morality tale with white hats and black hats should be resisted IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-broadcasting-leaked-palestine-papers/568808/35 "2011-01-25T15:27:15Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > there is a policy in place, regardless of what Government is governing, the policy of continued and never-ending climate of tension \*After the leaked offer was made, negotiations were suspended by Abbas in December of 2008. \* ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-broadcasting-leaked-palestine-papers/568808/36 "2011-01-25T16:21:59Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > \*After the leaked offer was made, negotiations were suspended by Abbas in December of 2008. \* You are piece of work, dude! Newspapers such as NY Times and Globe&Mail concluded main reason for those talks to stop was that Olmert had to step down due to corruption charges (surprise, surprise) and when Netanyahu came on he wanted fresh start. It is incredible that even under the weight of the FACTS the amount f misinformation and lies coming from you is astounding. It would be in good taste, and respect for this Board in general and GD forum in particular, to just cease with nonsense. Nobody is taking you seriously anymore, your discussion style and attitude is subject of ridicule and you should just quit. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-broadcasting-leaked-palestine-papers/568808/37 "2011-01-25T16:23:55Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Woah, I don’t agree that it shows anything of the sort. That`s what I think and I do not expect everyone to agree. However, you disagreeing was expected. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-broadcasting-leaked-palestine-papers/568808/38 "2011-01-25T16:30:16Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > It is incredible that even under the weight of the FACTS the amount f misinformation and lies coming from you is astounding. It would be in good taste, and respect for this Board in general and GD forum in particular, to just cease with nonsense. > > Nobody is taking you seriously anymore, your discussion style and attitude is subject of ridicule and you should just quit. This post is a bit ironic since you are breaking forum rules here. You’re not allowed to call another poster a liar in GD, and these personal comments are not appropriate in general. In the future please save this kind of thing for the Pit or don’t post it all. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-broadcasting-leaked-palestine-papers/568808/39 "2011-01-25T16:31:45Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Newspapers such as NY Times and Globe&Mail concluded main reason for those talks to stop was that Olmert had to step down due to corruption charges Already cited was the fact that the talks were actually stopped by Abbas, in December of 2008. This is simple fact, you have not disputed it. Olmert was indicted for corruption charges in August of 2009. This was eight months after Abbas froze negotiations in December of 2008. Olmert said he would not seek re-election in July of 2008. That was six months before Abbas froze negotiations in December of 2008. Your claims make no sense. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-broadcasting-leaked-palestine-papers/568808/40 "2011-01-25T16:40:03Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Newspapers such as NY Times and Globe&Mail concluded main reason for those talks to stop was that Olmert had to step down due to corruption charges (surprise, surprise) and when Netanyahu came on he wanted fresh start. This does not appear factually correct. From the Washington Post: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/02/AR2008030200217.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/02/AR2008030200217.html) > [@](#): > > RAMALLAH, West Bank, March 2 – Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas on Sunday suspended peace talks with Israel following a spasm of violence in the Gaza Strip that has left more than 100 Palestinians dead since Wednesday as Hamas has continued its campaign of rocket strikes. > > Under heavy domestic pressure and with protests across the West Bank, Abbas said the talks could not proceed during an Israeli offensive that has enraged Palestinians. He did not close the door on negotiations, having said frequently that he hopes the U.S.-backed talks will result in a comprehensive agreement by year’s end. But he said resumption of the talks hinged on an end to Israel’s “criminal war on the Palestinian people.” That was in 2008. More recently, last year: > **[Middle East peace talks: Settlement row 'crisis'](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11946465)** > > Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas says Middle East peace talks are in crisis following Israel's refusal to stop building in settlements. > [@](#): > > Mr Abbas suspended talks in September after a 10-month halt on Israeli building in the occupied West Bank, excluding East Jerusalem, expired. > > The US has vowed to find other ways to bring the two sides together. > > The peace talks resumed in Washington in September after a break of almost two years, but broke down just weeks later over the settlement issue. Even assuming this account is wrong (and I must say I have found no evidence of it), your account directly contradicts the keystone of your previous post: that Israeli politicians have a common outlook as a class, “… that there is a policy in place, regardless of what Government is governing”, acting towards a common goal of deliberately thwarting peace initiatives. Olmert is not the same as Bibi. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-broadcasting-leaked-palestine-papers/568808.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-broadcasting-leaked-palestine-papers/568808.md?page=3)