# Al Jazeera reporting the beheading of the South Korean hostage **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 22, 2004, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-reporting-the-beheading-of-the-south-korean-hostage/251665 "2004-06-22T16:58:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-reporting-the-beheading-of-the-south-korean-hostage/251665/61 "2004-06-23T13:16:25Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I hate threads like this, with Leftista hand-wringers turning it into an excuse to bash Bush and explain how we all deserve what the terrorists are doing because they had unhappy childhoods, and that if we would just give them all our worldly belongings and kiss their asses, they would leave us alone. And blowjobs, don’t forget the blowjobs. All we want is a face full of Osama-cum, that’s why we oppose the war. Right guys? ---
**Author:** ![RTA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@RTA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTA)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-reporting-the-beheading-of-the-south-korean-hostage/251665/62 "2004-06-23T13:22:18Z")
People are free to watch whatever they want to … … but in my opinion, those who go out of their way to see this sort of thing, they are “playing along” with the terrorists. Letting themselves be terrorized, if only a little. Playing the game as they dictate it. That, or it’s merely ghoulish curiosity. Either way, I can’t endorse it. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-reporting-the-beheading-of-the-south-korean-hostage/251665/63 "2004-06-23T13:28:55Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > It’s rough that the Korean guy was murdered and it’s true that one never knows how one will react to impending death until it happens, but I really hope that if that were me that I wouldn’t die sniveling and crying. I’d much prefer to go like [Fabrizio Quattrocchi](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3628977.stm). A-frigging-men. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-reporting-the-beheading-of-the-south-korean-hostage/251665/64 "2004-06-23T13:41:23Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I hate threads like this, with Leftista hand-wringers turning it into an excuse to bash Bush and explain how we all deserve what the terrorists are doing because they had unhappy childhoods, and that if we would just give them all our worldly belongings and kiss their asses, they would leave us alone. Man, fuck you, shove that soapbox up your ass. Point out where I stated that we deserve what we’re getting, or that we should give them what they want. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-reporting-the-beheading-of-the-south-korean-hostage/251665/65 "2004-06-23T14:06:56Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I hate threads like this, with Leftista hand-wringers turning it into an excuse to bash Bush and explain how we all deserve what the terrorists are doing because they had unhappy childhoods, and that if we would just give them all our worldly belongings and kiss their asses, they would leave us alone. **Lib** , you’re the only person who looks stupid as a result of this absurd caricature. Everyone else in this discussion can see it for the idiocy it is. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-reporting-the-beheading-of-the-south-korean-hostage/251665/66 "2004-06-23T14:08:12Z")
> [@cuauhtemoc](#): > > And blowjobs, don’t forget the blowjobs. All we want is a face full of Osama-cum, that’s why we oppose the war. Right guys? [Homer] Mmmmm…Osama-cum… [/Homer] dude, that was just wrong. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-reporting-the-beheading-of-the-south-korean-hostage/251665/67 "2004-06-23T15:07:13Z")
I wish there was someway to a.) _identify_ and, b.) _work with_ sensible clerics who would agree that this is not a war against Islam and that as long as the terrorists continue to proclaim it as such both Islam and peace will suffer. **litost** said: _“The problem is the population of terrorists is not a constant number. They are being created as we speak. I can’t remember a large-scale terrorist-government conflict that was solved by eliminating the terrorists. \ Their demands and ideology is extreme enough that one cannot negotiate with them or with any political wing that might emerge. Of course, we have to be active in disrupting the network etc, but I don’t see a solution unless some countries in the ME & Asia (Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Jordan, Pakistan etc) change significantly. Until then, the threat will be active.”_ Agreed. Every Muslim in every Islamic country is a potential terrorist until the clerics remove the religious veil from the terrorists inflamatory rhetoric. Not that I hold out much chance of this happening but, frankly, it’s about the only possible way I see to circumvent this manifesting itself into an Israeli/Palestinian clusterfuck on a global scale. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-reporting-the-beheading-of-the-south-korean-hostage/251665/68 "2004-06-23T15:37:37Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > I wish there was someway to a.) _identify_ and, b.) _work with_ sensible clerics who would agree that this is not a war against Islam and that as long as the terrorists continue to proclaim it as such both Islam and peace will suffer. Sure, but the problem is it cuts both ways, we have yahoos over here preaching that we should nuke up all those “towelheads” and turn the ME into a parking lot. We need cooler heads to prevail on both sides of the situation, and sadly that ain’t going to happen. The best thing we could have done was to stay out of Iraq and fight the WOT off the public radar. ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-reporting-the-beheading-of-the-south-korean-hostage/251665/69 "2004-06-23T16:20:09Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > Oh, **Testy** , what an awful situation! An ailing wife, a teenaged daughter who is losing her mother, and living smack in the middle of that chaos. > > You are in my thoughts. Thank you for the kind thoughts, ivylass. It seems like life has pretty much gone to shit in the last couple of years; surgery, followed by radiation then chemo, followed by more chemo followed by surgery and yet more surgery. Cancer is a real life-wrecker. Thanks again Testy. ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-reporting-the-beheading-of-the-south-korean-hostage/251665/70 "2004-06-23T16:20:37Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > I hardly think we’re just flipping them off. Even the Saudi gov’t is getting into it, killing the terrorists who killed Johnson. Are we sure that’s who the Saudis killed? I mean, considering the Saudi propensity for summary “justice” and the Saudi ambivalence about their “friendship” with America, isn’t it just possible that they simply rounded up the usual suspects and made a show of killing a few or our “common enemies”? I hope the individuals the Saudi government executed really were the bastards who murdered Johnson. But I fear it’s just as likely that the local power just eliminated a few of their own troublesome pests, and said, “See, America, what good friends we are?” ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-reporting-the-beheading-of-the-south-korean-hostage/251665/71 "2004-06-23T16:25:12Z")
> [@DesertGeezer](#): > > Are we sure that’s who the Saudis killed? I mean, considering the Saudi propensity for summary “justice” and the Saudi ambivalence about their “friendship” with America, isn’t it just possible that they simply rounded up the usual suspects and made a show of killing a few or our “common enemies”? I hope the individuals the Saudi government executed really were the bastards who murdered Johnson. But I fear it’s just as likely that the local power just eliminated a few of their own troublesome pests, and said, “See, America, what good friends we are?” I think you’re doing them a disservice with that last bit. Al-Moghrim has been on TV for a good while as a wanted man with around US $500K price on his head. I also don’t think they do a lot of “summary justice” when it is the death penalty. Regards Testy ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-reporting-the-beheading-of-the-south-korean-hostage/251665/72 "2004-06-23T16:43:58Z")
> [@Testy](#): > > I think you’re doing them a disservice with that last bit. Al-Moghrim has been on TV for a good while as a wanted man with around US $500K price on his head. I also don’t think they do a lot of “summary justice” when it is the death penalty. Sorry, **Testy**. I’ve always had the impression that the Saudis were not entirely sincere in their friendship with the US or in their attempts to eliminate the terrorists among them. But, since you are there, your perspective is probably better than mine. I should have asked you whether you thought it was so, rather than assert that it was. I’m sure that not all Saudis think with one mind, any more than all Americans do. I hope you and your family will be safe. I can’t even imagine what you are going through. ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-reporting-the-beheading-of-the-south-korean-hostage/251665/73 "2004-06-23T19:06:48Z")
> [@DesertGeezer](#): > > Sorry, **Testy**. I’ve always had the impression that the Saudis were not entirely sincere in their friendship with the US or in their attempts to eliminate the terrorists among them. But, since you are there, your perspective is probably better than mine. I should have asked you whether you thought it was so, rather than assert that it was. I’m sure that not all Saudis think with one mind, any more than all Americans do. > > I hope you and your family will be safe. I can’t even imagine what you are going through. Thank you for the kind thoughts. They are appreciated very much. As far as the sincerity of Saudi with the US, it’s admittedly a bit schizophrenic. I always split the Saudis into three (admittedly large) groups. The **average** Saudi admires the US in a weird way. He knows it is probably the dominant culture on the planet right now and wants to emulate it. OTOH, he has been taught all his life, by official teachers with official textbooks, that the West is decadent, spiritually impoverished, and has some mysterious love of all things Jewish. Some American policies tend to support his position. The guy can overcome this but it takes an effort and he is a sucker for any kind of rumor about the evils of the West. Unfortunately, no one ever hears about this “Abdullah Average” that just goes to work and makes a check to feed the family. The Royals are as Western as you or I. The majority of them attend Western schools in Europe or the US and are comfortable anywhere although they tend to irritate people by being arrogant. Last but not least are the religious folks. Religion plays a significant role in Saudi schools and an enormous one in their culture. I’m not really sure the Saudi religion and culture can be separated at all. Generally, the religious folks are the ones that believe the teachers and Islamic scholars they have been taught to respect. Among the religious folk there is the usual spectrum, from those who are a credit to their religion all the way down to the AQ types. It is a huge and very finely graduated spectrum and there is always a few guys that are willing to go just a little bit further than their neighbor until someone starts bloodying the streets. How to deal with that last bit of the religious group, I have no idea. They have such a weight of cultural and religious tradition behind them that they are very-nearly invincible in local debate. For a local to openly advocate liberalizing the traditional or religious practices and beliefs is to invite a charge of heresy and being a non-Saudi of some sort. The AQ recruiters play the Islamic card very well in this group, claiming to fight for Moslems everywhere, defending their culture from the West, etc. etc. My personal opinion is that AQ’s fight with Saudi has a lot more to do with who will control “X” billions of dollars of oil revenue than anything religious. FWIW, that is just my 2 cents on the way I break them up in my head. Best regards Testy ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-reporting-the-beheading-of-the-south-korean-hostage/251665/74 "2004-06-23T22:47:10Z")
> [@Testy](#): > > FWIW, that is just my 2 cents on the way I break them up in my head. Lets say two dollars. As far as I know your position is unusual if not unique among dopers, in that you live in Saudi Arabia, and you appear to be an astute observer of the ways of the people who surround you. Your input in these discussions is greatly appreciated. I’m afraid my view of Saudis in general has been shaped more by Jay Leno than by someone who knows what he’s talking about. Next time I’ll ask first and shoot from the hip later. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2004, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-reporting-the-beheading-of-the-south-korean-hostage/251665/75 "2004-06-24T01:35:42Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > I felt particualrly bad for this guy, as he made no pretense of putting on a brave face: the tape showed him screaming and begging and pleading for his life, obviously terrified out of his mind. We’d all like to think we’d be brave and stoic under those circumstances, but to see him shrieking like a frightened five-year-old really hit home. Every time I think of this poor fellow’s pleas for his life, and his parents collapsing on the floor of their home, it breaks my heart all over again. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-jazeera-reporting-the-beheading-of-the-south-korean-hostage/251665.md?page=3)