# Al Qaeda in Iraq: mutiplying like bread and fish? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 25, 2007, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392 "2007-06-25T21:19:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/1 "2007-06-25T21:19:36Z")
I was wondering when someone on the “underground” press I read was going to mention latest Orwellian machination of Dubya and Co; of course, with the coalescence of the subservient MSM. See, not sure of how many of you have noticed, but for the past what? Month, month and a half? Most of the news coming out of Iraq refer to anyone killed by the US Forces as --and I paraphrase numerous MSM headlines as my cite will show – “22 Al Qaeda operatives killed in “X”” IOW, all of a sudden, there are no more insurgent left, just those evil bastards connected to 9/11. Even though The Decider himsellf, had this to say just after his infamous re-election in '04: > [@George W. Bush](#): > > A clear strategy begins with a clear understanding of the enemy we face. **The enemy in Iraq is a combination of rejectionists, Saddamists and terrorists.The rejectionists are by far the largest group**. These are ordinary Iraqis, mostly Sunni Arabs, who miss the privileged status they had under the regime of Saddam Hussein – and they reject an Iraq in which they are no longer the dominant group. . . . > > **The second group that makes up the enemy in Iraq is smaller** , but more determined. It contains former regime loyalists who held positions of power under Saddam Hussein – people who still harbor dreams of returning to power. **These hard-core Saddamists are trying to foment anti-democratic sentiment amongst the larger Sunni community.**. . . > > **The third group is the smallest** , but the most lethal: the terrorists **affiliated with or inspired by al Qaeda.** Yeah, ok, fine…so now it’s fishes and bread, Je, er, right Dear Decider? Disclaimer: No offense meant to believers with the title nor my last line. It simply seemed like an apt analogy. That said, I’ll let Glenn Greenwald, from Salon, take over: [Everyone we fight in Iraq is now “al-Qaida”](http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/06/23/al_qaeda/index.html) > [@](#): > > \*\*Well, here, as expected Josh Marshall publishes [an e-mail](http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2007_06_17.php#014771) from a reader who identifies what is one of the most astonishing instances of mindless, pro-government “reporting” yet: > > > [@](#): > > > > \*It’s a curious thing that, over the past 10 - 12 days, the news from Iraq refers to the combatants there as “al-Qaida” fighters. When did that happen? > > > > Until a few days ago, the combatants in Iraq were “insurgents” or they were referred to as “Sunni” or “Shia’a” fighters in the Iraq Civil War. Suddenly, without evidence, without proof, without any semblance of fact, the US military command is referring to these combatants as “al-Qaida”. > > - > > Welcome to the latest in Iraq propaganda. > > ``` > Welcome to the latest in Iraq propaganda. > > ``` > > That the Bush administration, and specifically its military commanders, decided to begin using the term “Al Qaeda” to designate “anyone and everyeone we fight against or kill in Iraq” is obvious. All of a sudden, every time one of the top military commanders describes our latest operations or quantifies how many we killed, the enemy is referred to, almost exclusively now, as “Al Qaeda.” > > But what is even more notable is that the establishment press has followed right along, just as enthusiastically. I don’t think the New York Times has published a story about Iraq in the last two weeks without stating that we are killing “Al Qaeda fighters,” capturing “Al Qaeda leaders,” and every new operation is against “Al Qaeda.” \*\* Much more at source after you watch a small ad – if you’re not already a subscriber that is. Thoughts? Are they fooling anyone? Who’s swallowing the latest Bushit? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/2 "2007-06-25T22:19:26Z")
Could be a somewhat more benign explanation. Like they are trying to extract ourselves from the Shia-Sunni struggle by saying something like “Hey, we’re only here about AlQ!” Since the Shia are sworn enemies of the Wahabbists (the “inspiration” for AlQ) that might fly with them, if they didn’t already hate our guts. And I can readily believe the Sunni aren’t thrilled about foreign fighters in their midst. I’d have a better chance to assess the chances if I had the slightest idea what the bleeding fuck is going on over there. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/3 "2007-06-25T22:41:01Z")
Yeah, _could be_ **'luc** , but as far as I am aware the number of _foreign fighters_ – never mind AQ alone – in Iraq was dismally small (within 5% IIC), so how can they possibly find and kill just that exact faction of the insurgency? Besides do they wear uniform or badges identifying them as AQ fighters? Never mind I don’t even know what to parse this bullshit in his speech “affiliated with.” WTF? Lastly, I don’t think anyone needs reminding the heaviest US casualties are due to the IED’s. Hardly an AQ exclusive – so you’d think those are bad guys too, regardless of the fact of whatever category they want to classify them in: insurgents, t’rrarist and AQ. And again, AQ is recognized by the very President as the **smallest fighting unit in Iraq**. And dumb as rocks too. For they all apparently decided staying in Baquba to wait for the 10,000 American troops surge was a honky dory idea. After all, we all know their Bradley’s and F-16’s are as good as yours. Whom do I believe? Occam’s Razor and all that. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/4 "2007-06-25T22:48:48Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] I’d have a better chance to assess the chances if I had the slightest idea what the bleeding fuck is going on over there. [/QUOTE] Bleeding fuck describes the situation pretty accurately, I think. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/5 "2007-06-25T22:57:18Z")
I haven’t noticed any real change-- I think the administration has been overstating the case of al Qaeda in Iraq for a long time. But I wouldn’t put it past these guys to ramp up the spin machine as we approach the long awaited September review to make it look like we were mostly fighting al Qaeda. The consensus Democrat position (such as there is one) is that they will agree to allow the military to stay in Iraq only for the purpose of fighting al Qaeda. Frankly, I’m not convinced that al Qaeda in Iraq is all that closely affiliated with ObL’s group. Some guy decides to blow something up, and to make himself sound important he says he’s part of al Qaeda. And I wouldn’t know how our guys could differentiate between Sunni insurgents and al Qaeda (unless they are certain the guys are foreign fighters). BTW, it’s usually written as “loaves and fishes” (don’t ask me why, but it’s sort of archaic English). Maybe that lost something in the translation from the Greek to the Latin to Spanish and then to English. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/6 "2007-06-25T23:02:25Z")
**RedFury** : logic :: salad oil : Massengill douche As for me, I mourn a dozen Sunni sheikhs who were killed or injured today by idiots some people can now conveniently brand “al Qaeda.” ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/7 "2007-06-25T23:02:58Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] BTW, it’s usually written as “loaves and fishes” (don’t ask me why, but it’s sort of archaic English). Maybe that lost something in the translation from the Greek to the Latin to Spanish and then to English. 😉 [/QUOTE] The Bible wasn’t written in English? Pshaw. Next you’ll be telling me that Jesus didn’t speak in red. I’ve given up on benign explanations, **elucidator**. Sadly, my default assumption for any action taken by this administration has become that it is a runup to some nefarious action to be named later. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/8 "2007-06-25T23:03:45Z")
[QUOTE=RedFury] Thoughts? Are they fooling anyone? [/QUOTE] Sure they are. The latest Newseek poll shows an increase in the number of Americans who believe Saddam was directly involved in planning the 9/11 attacks: > [@](#): > > Do you think Saddam Hussein’s regime in Iraq was directly involved in planning, financing, or carrying out the terrorist attacks of September 11th, 2001? > > Now > 41% yes > 50% no > 9% clueless > > 09/30/2004 > 36% yes > 51% no > 13% clueless You’ve got to keep the lies coming, if you’re to be believed, even by fools. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/9 "2007-06-25T23:13:50Z")
> [@](#): > > Frankly, I’m not convinced that al Qaeda in Iraq is all that closely affiliated with ObL’s group. Some guy decides to blow something up, and to make himself sound important he says he’s part of al Qaeda. And I wouldn’t know how our guys could differentiate between Sunni insurgents and al Qaeda (unless they are certain the guys are foreign fighters). You’ll get no argument from me. In fact, that’s what I find puzzling. > [@](#): > > BTW, it’s usually written as “loaves and fishes” (don’t ask me why, but it’s sort of archaic English). Maybe that lost something in the translation from the Greek to the Latin to Spanish and then to English. 😉 Perdon. But I’m going by memory from the last mass I heard it said – what? 35 years ago? And yeah, I’m faily sure that in Spanish is “panes y peces” pan= bread not loaf=barra (de pan). Need to schedule a refresher course with **Tom** I guess. 😉 Anyhow, put your anti-lefty mask on and read the following article: [The Secret Air Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Unreported casualties]([http://zmagsite.zmag.org/June2007/nygaard0607.html](http://zmagsite.zmag.org/June2007/nygaard0607.html)) Couldn’t possibly be true, right? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/10 "2007-06-25T23:16:01Z")
Well that’s just great. Thanks for the news, **Squink**. Fuckin’ amazing. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/11 "2007-06-25T23:23:00Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I haven’t noticed any real change-- I think the administration has been overstating the case of al Qaeda in Iraq for a long time. But I wouldn’t put it past these guys to ramp up the spin machine as we approach the long awaited September review to make it look like we were mostly fighting al Qaeda. The consensus Democrat position (such as there is one) is that they will agree to allow the military to stay in Iraq only for the purpose of fighting al Qaeda. [/quote] This part of your post got cut-off in the prior on and I wanted to respond to it. If you want to “notice” the change, read the full Salon article (ad is short, I promise) and you’ll see tha the author brings-up plenty of quotes – all recent. In fact, as I said in the OP, I’d noticed the shift/trend myself rather recently. As for the rest of what you say, yeah, sure, it makes perfect sense – if one wishes to believe said nonsense. Not you, them. Just to make sure there are no equivocations. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/12 "2007-06-25T23:29:22Z")
Deleted double-post ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/13 "2007-06-25T23:29:51Z")
[QUOTE=El Cid Viscoso] **RedFury** : logic :: salad oil : Massengill douche As for me, I mourn a dozen Sunni sheikhs who were killed or injured today by idiots some people can now conveniently brand “al Qaeda.” [/QUOTE] I (well, Bablefish) translated this from whatever it was to Greek. Not much help I’m afraid: > [@](#): > > RedFury: πετρέλαιο σαλάτας λογικής ::: Douche Massengill > > Όσον αφορά σε με, πενθώ δωδεκάα sunni sheikhs που σκοτώθηκαν ή τραυματίστηκαν σήμερα από τα ηλιθίους που μερικοί άνθρωποι μπορούν τώρα βολικά να μαρκαρίσουν “το Al Qaeda.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/14 "2007-06-25T23:32:48Z")
First guy who come even close to saying anything like “that’s all Greek to me” will be hunted down like a dog. You’ve been warned. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/15 "2007-06-25T23:54:08Z")
Huh. You’re not the only one who’s been struck by that, **RedFury**. I’ve been thinking the same damned thing lately – just how the hell do they actually know all those people they’ve been killing in Iraq are ALL al Qaeda lately? Maybe I’m paranoid, but it’s got a definite stink of propaganda to me. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2007, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/16 "2007-06-26T00:08:37Z")
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy] I’ve been thinking the same damned thing lately – just how the hell do they actually know all those people they’ve been killing in Iraq are ALL al Qaeda lately? [/QUOTE] By their secret Al-Queda decoder rings that they are required to wear, silly. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2007, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/17 "2007-06-26T00:10:37Z")
[QUOTE=Frostillicus] By their secret Al-Queda decoder rings that they are required to wear, silly. 🙂 [/QUOTE] :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2007, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/18 "2007-06-26T00:18:41Z")
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy] Huh. You’re not the only one who’s been struck by that, **RedFury**. I’ve been thinking the same damned thing lately – just how the hell do they actually know all those people they’ve been killing in Iraq are ALL al Qaeda lately? Maybe I’m paranoid, but it’s got a definite stink of propaganda to me. [/QUOTE] That’s easy. Al Qaeda are the ones trying to kill us we’re not giving weapons to. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2007, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/19 "2007-06-26T00:26:30Z")
“Shit, somebody’s shooting at me!” “Easy, son. AK-47?” “Naw, a goddam M-16!” “Hold your fire, men. Friendly!” ---
**Author:** ![SoCalled](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3da27b/32.png) [@SoCalled](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoCalled)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2007, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392/20 "2007-06-26T00:44:06Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] The latest Newseek poll shows an increase in the number of Americans who believe Saddam was directly involved in planning the 9/11 attacks[.] [/QUOTE] It’s also notable that the proposed time for evaluating the success of the “surge” is in September, neatly coinciding with the anniversary of 9/11. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/al-qaeda-in-iraq-mutiplying-like-bread-and-fish/409392.md?page=2)